Cologne Petition Help

[glenthebattleostrich]

Hi all,

A few of us are trying to get a petition together to have the events of NYE in Europe discussed in parliament, as well as the implications for British Women. We need some volunteers to get the petition off the ground.

Would you mind having a look and if you can support the petition please let us know.

We need another few people to support the petition to get it off the ground.

Cologne Thread VII

[glenthebattleostrich]

Anyone?

[glenthebattleostrich]

Can anyone pop over and advise on wording or the contact list? Anything at all?

[ToffeePenny]

Already lurking over there - struggling to get thoughts on wording though, something along the lines of:
On New Year’s Eve, women across the EU were subjected to mass sex assaults previously unknown in Europe. We demand that Government make violence against women a recognised hate crime.

[FreshwaterSelkie]

It's probably coming over as a bit unsupportive, but I haven't been following the monster threads over there, and it's a bit overwhelming to try to trawl through at this stage to see what has and hasn't been proposed for wording. I wonder if that's the reason for a bit of a lack of response on this thread, rather than a lack of interest?

Happy to support the petition, though I'm not in the UK so of limited impact.

[TrojanWhore]

Another one who does not have the time to read the 6,302 posts that are in the threads linked to OP.

Also, as I find all crime hateful I wouldn't find this wording acceptable. The idea that the mugger of a 90 year old man would be charged with a 'lesser' crime than the mugger of a 20 year old women will never sit right with me.

[TrojanWhore]

And yes, before it's pointed out to me in kind words of one syllable that this came from a specific set of sexual assaults, I do know that.

However your petition is asking for heavier penalties for violence against women, which is why the mugging example applies.

If you mean sexual assaults only, you need to specify that.

And of course the petition, even if it reaches the required number will not result in change if that is what you ask for, as the offences are separately defined and carry their own sentencing guidelines already.

[ToffeePenny]

But this doesn't feel like sexual assault alone, I agree that is covered already, this feels more as if it was done to prove a point - my gut feeling is that the perpetrators did it because they view women as something belonging (in the sense of possession) to another culture (rather than as individuals with agency making up 50% of it), women as thing that can be attacked/spoils/damaged/broken to show that culture they mean business. In the same way someone out of jealousy would scratch a fancy car. That is why it is not the same - I do not believe they would use a man, even a 90 year old one, to make a display like this, I believe they would still be allowed their own agency. There were German men trying to get through with the women too - I have not seen any reports of mass assault of them.
Sorry - explaining very badly (which is why I'm lurking on the other thread, not posting)

[TheWomanInTheWall]

I will take a look.

I understand that "groping" is not a crime in Germany, does the petition address that?

[TrojanWhore]

If you want to petition on the basis that this event abroad is different, then it needs to be about to what makes it different.

Right now it is worded as a request for a specific change to the definition of hate crime.

So any debate will centre on what has actually been requested.

A petition to the British government will be disallowed if the actions requested cannot be carried out by the government. Asking for a change to German law isn't really going to be a starter. Asking the government to make official representations to the German government about its laws on sexual offences would be achievable. But isn't going to effect change, nor really attract much attention.

[glenthebattleostrich]

The wording we have submitted is:

Women in the UK must be free to work, travel and live free of sexual violence
Recently, women across the EU were subjected to mass sexual assaults of a type previously unknown in Europe. We demand that Government brings forward proposals for extra measures to uphold UK women's rights, safety & freedom, and to expand police understanding-recognition-response to such behaviour.

We are not trying to change laws in Germany. The petition focuses on trying to minimise the risk of the same thing happening here and forcing discussion around the issue.

[BungoWomble]

It is up, with Glen's wording just above.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/119385

Please have a look and I hope you'll all be able to support and share it.

[BungoWomble]

To quote CalmYoBadSelf Sun 24-Jan-16 19:02:06 in the other threads:

"The whole point of this petition was to try to find a way to make the government acknowledge that women's rights should not be sacrificed to appease other groups without making racist allegations.

We are all aware that not all Muslims, not all refugees, not all immigrants and not all men would behave in this way but we should not stand by and allow freedom and safety of women to be eroded as we hear is happening in other European countries. Equally we are all aware that misogyny and sexual violence is not unheard of in all societies but that is no reason to allow practices like Taharrush to be imported without us at least trying to protest"

[Rerevisionist]

Reminder to myself: the word 'taharrush' [Latin alphabet, Arabic word] led me here.