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How do you prevent what happened in Cologne happening here?

(334 Posts)
Egosumquisum Fri 08-Jan-16 10:35:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alyosha Fri 08-Jan-16 11:00:25

By tackling the problem head on. Admitting it is a problem, and running classes (like they do in Norway) to make it very clear what the standards of behaviour are.

Egosumquisum Fri 08-Jan-16 11:05:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LurcioAgain Fri 08-Jan-16 11:45:10

I hope Oneflewoverthedodosnest doesn't mind me quoting her post from the other thread, but it seems to me like a great analysis:

I don't think it's a conspiracy per se but it reveals a lot about people's beliefs and priorities in the same way that Rotherham did.

It is not particularly surprising to me, with the level of hidden misogyny within our society, that the response so far has been
- To disbelieve women
- To minimise what happened to women
- To avoid official recording of what happened to women (police)
- To prioritise immigrant (or indeed any) men over women
- To call women hysterical for demanding the protection of their basic human rights of security and freedom of movement
- To expect women to budge up, change how they act, and appease the problem.

Yes this is more shocking when something on such a grotesque scale occurs, but it is merely the same learned behaviour that applies to women suffering from rape, domestic violence, harassment or even misogynistic bullying at work. We may think we've gained equality but when push comes to shove we're still second class citizens.

I have to admit I'm feeling a bit despairing at the moment. There seems to be such a concerted campaign in the media to minimize what happened and brush it under the carpet that I really don't know where we go next.

batshitlady Fri 08-Jan-16 12:47:06

By sodding well having an open, extensive discussion about it. This kind of embarrassed - ahem, unwillingness to discuss this issue is sickening and infuriating. The so called 'liberal' press as well as the media watchdog, left leaning - political commentary websites in particular have disappointed me. Virtually nothing has been written on this. The one or two articles I have read have been pathetically mealy mouthed and somewhat patronising. With a kind of intellectually high handed, "clam down dear'" tone to them.

Have we learned nothing from Rotherham, Rochdale, even more recently Birmingham, where Asian gangs have been sexually abusing and trafficking girls as young as 12 through prostitution. This needs to be discussed, debated and concrete action taken. The ethnicity of the offenders in Cologne on NYE and in the cases I've mentioned has to be recognised and reinforced.

OTheHugeManatee Fri 08-Jan-16 14:30:02

I read a cracking article by Julie Bindel the other day about the way women's rights issues are being sidelined by fears of being called racist or Islamophobic. I'll see if I can post a link.

OTheHugeManatee Fri 08-Jan-16 14:34:43

Julie Bindel article

It's a really important subject and one that gets tiptoed around a lot. Women's hard-won rights are being chipped away on many fronts and the fear of confronting misogynist nonwestern cultural beliefs is one front in this erosion. The trans thing is another example. But the way women are being repeatedly thrown under the bus by proponents of cultural relativism is IMO a far greater threat.

unexpsoc Fri 08-Jan-16 15:27:46

basically batshit lady beat me to it. What they said.

batshitlady Fri 08-Jan-16 16:42:57

Good article OTheHuge. Thanks for the link!

I believe just as we educate in schools the understanding of the faith, religious and cultural needs of Muslims and all faiths.

It should also be compulsory for recently arrived Muslim men and women (as well as those who end up in the criminal justice system for crimes of sexual abuse towards women and girls), to attend classes (separate ones), in equality and citizenship. These should include what equality really means and how it manifests itself in Western societies. Why the Niqab/Hijab can cause offensive to Westerners and so on. How to cope with sights, phenomenon, laws and behaviour that might run counter to everything they understand and/or have never seen or experienced before, having come from a completely different (in respect to gender equality at least) culture.

I think the time has come for us to stop being so pathetically mealy-mouthed and address what I believe is a growing problem.

Unless we start picking it apart? I'm not sure I understand you MistressMia?? Try to stop people taking their religious fairy tales as actual fact?

batshitlady Fri 08-Jan-16 16:44:53

Sorry, last para' intended for another thread!

EnthusiasmDisturbed Fri 08-Jan-16 19:08:57

by not being afraid of being accused as racist and not being afraid of adding fuel to the right wing parties and stop suppressing these news stories

yes to lessons on what is and what is not acceptable, our laws and expectations

stop viewing all refugees as poor hopeless people - as with all groups of people there will be the good and the not so good. some view those who attacked women in Germany as not genuine refugees - yes they can be as they are fleeing a civil war sexual predators do not usually announce their ways and will be in as much danger as the next man

taking in more women and children and less young men

noeffingidea Fri 08-Jan-16 19:27:04

Cctv cameras in public spaces (believe we already have a lot, but more if possible)
Effective policing, crowd monitoring and control (again I think our police are pretty good)
Proper sentencing
Review of the deportation system. Whole process speeded up.No second chances once you have been convicted of a crime against a British citizen.
Citizenship classes
Support for women and girls from traditional Muslim communities.
Strict control of immigration, especially from Muslim countries. Sorry about that,I know it won't be a popular view. I personally don't want to see any increase in the Muslim population. Call me racist/islamophobic if you want.
No more faith schools, very careful monitoring of home education.
Increasing secularisation. Stop pandering to religion. Your own personal beliefs don't make you a special case.
No shariah courts. All British citizens are equal under the law.

Egosumquisum Fri 08-Jan-16 19:39:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QueenLaBeefah Fri 08-Jan-16 19:42:09

Put all men under a night time curfew. I'm bored of being told I shouldn't go out at night unless chaperoned.

DadWasHere Fri 08-Jan-16 21:03:40

some view those who attacked women in Germany as not genuine refugees - yes they can be

Yea, its delusional, despairingly so. It amounts to saying that an evil person cant also be a person in need, so morality and good intention cannot be polluted by the reality of consequences in enacting them.

FelicityFunknickle Fri 08-Jan-16 21:10:05

put all men under a night time curfew
So many times I have wanted to say this.

SirChenjin Fri 08-Jan-16 21:19:40

Apart from that sexist and ridiculous 'curfew for all men' post I agree with everything already said. We need to stop being so reluctant to challenge cultural and religious ideologies which are incompatible with the values we have worked hard to achieve - and are still working for.

LurcioAgain Fri 08-Jan-16 21:26:20

The point about the "ridiculous and sexist" suggestion of a curfew for men is that it is so seldom that anyone seems to question the ridiculousness and sexism inherent in suggesting a curfew for women (cf suggestions by the mayor of Cologne and mayor of Vienna). Of course no-one is ever going to impose a curfew on men. Why then do so many people in power keep sodding suggesting curfews on women as the solution to this problem?

"Put a curfew on men" is an understandable rhetorical response to the continual barrage of victim-blaming suggestions of "dress sensibly, keep men at arm's length, go out in groups, go out accompanied by male relatives" - none of which did any of the women in Cologne any good whatsoever.

TheseBedroomWalls Fri 08-Jan-16 21:26:56

I think a curfew for men is a brilliant idea! Sometimes, when I am most despairing of their brutality, I think they are lucky they are not penned up in zoos like the rest of the wild animals.

TheseBedroomWalls Fri 08-Jan-16 21:28:22

I don't mean to be inflammatory right now.....I have two little girls and I am sick to death of disgusting, revolting men being such a massive threat to them.

FelicityFunknickle Fri 08-Jan-16 21:32:08

It is only ridiculous because it won't happen
It makes perfect sense.
Apart from possibly increasing the risk to the women at home.

SirChenjin Fri 08-Jan-16 21:33:18

The comments about curfews on women has been rounded on, and rightly so. I find your comments inflammatory and offensive actually - men, women, people of various colours, religions and faiths are not homogeneous masses and so I prefer to focus on the ones committing the crimes as opposed to calling for any one group as a whole to be denied their rights to move about freely. To suggest otherwise is quite horrifying.

TheseBedroomWalls Fri 08-Jan-16 21:35:13

Does make perfect sense. Any man roaming around after curfew will be picked up by the police as a potential rapist/robber/killer. Better that than innocent women being given a curfew. But of course it won't happen. Men are more important than women....(in their dreams)

SirChenjin Fri 08-Jan-16 21:38:24

Better, actually, to deal with the actual issue at hand. Perhaps we could simply ban all Muslim and North African men from going out after dark - y'know just to be on the safe side hmm

LurcioAgain Fri 08-Jan-16 21:44:26

Okay, now we've established that SirChenjin doesn't understand political satire, and doesn't understand the notion that successful satire punches up, not down, can we move the thread on from the attempted derailment? Surely the real assaults suffered by the women in Cologne are more important than some imagined reverse sexism against men on the internet.

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