Did anyone see that Reggie Yates programme about men and feminism the other day?

[Thecatisatwat]

Even dh was shocked by the hatred shown by a lot of the men towards women.

[PassiveAgressiveQueen]

watching it now:
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06s5h18/reggie-yates-extreme-uk-2-men-at-war

[PassiveAgressiveQueen]

wtf - "you should find her a man to marry early"

[MephistophelesApprentice]

I saw it, though it showed me little I did not already know.

Toxic outcasts, poisoned by bitterness, claiming victimhood without examining historical context. Contemptible.

There are structures in our society that damage people of both genders (though typically more damaging to women) and I reject the promotion of hatred as a solution. Hatred can make you powerful, but if it dominates your perspective it cripples you.

That poisonous pick up artist at the beginning was nauseating. I remember the boys like him at school; It was like there was a psychic smell about them, something rancid, that made everyone uncomfortable in their presence. It's irritating that they now have people to validate their corrupted perspectives.

[Thecatisatwat]

Thanks for posting the link Passive, I'm never sure how to do iplayer links.
Meph, I agree, I was much less shocked than dh, I was just glad to see the BBC showing such a programme. Much better (I thought) than the Tyger Drewe Honey one shown a few months ago.

[UkmmTheSecond]

Watched it last night on Iplayer.
Reggie looked uncomfortable a few times.
Roosh telling a man to get his daughter married young, limit her choices and freedom, can fuck right off, I always knew his dating advice was shit so I don't know why I'm so shocked about his other attitudes. I've read "don't bang Denmark" and the way he spoke about and to women was offensive. He was very angry that women are seen as equal there, earn good money, not impressed by him and he struggled to find any women he fancied, or that would want want to spend time him him, he just vile.

There were some issued raised, things like how rape is treat for men, someone claimed that the total number of men are raped in prison is higher than all women. If this were true(I genuinely don't know) I didn't get the impression he wanted to help raped men, no mention of charities he's involved in etc, he was just angry that women get help. If he put the energy into helping make victims if rape (like women had to) rather than youtube about what women have, he might be able to make a difference.

Was a pretty common theme actually. "Women have this, men don't, it's not fairrrrrr" I don't think some of the men featured want extra rights for men, they just want women's rights and everything they have achieved taken off them. Or that women should be changing shit for them! They don't like not being in control of women anymore in my opinion.

(NAMALT)

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Roosh V is a rape advocate.

Not just an apologist, but he thinks men should rape women because they can.

[TesticleOfObjectivity]

Was a pretty common theme actually. "Women have this, men don't, it's not fairrrrrr" I don't think some of the men featured want extra rights for men, they just want women's rights and everything they have achieved taken off them. Or that women should be changing shit for them! They don't like not being in control of women anymore in my opinion.

This is what I felt too. It scares me as I wonder just how many men have this anger and hate towards women. The young boy (josh I think) I found it odd that he had these views at such a young and that he still lived with his mum and dad. It made me wonder what his parent's were like and how his mum felt about it all.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

I was when that blond guy (Milo?) was excusing online rape threats because they weren't meant seriouslyand were just a harmless language used by men when they lose their temper. I mean how are the women receiving them supposed to know if they are meant seriously or not?

It's not like rape doesn't happen in real life. The knowledge that are men out there who do rape means that virtual rape threats hold more power over women.

I thought Reggie should have said that but as a man he probably doesn't need to think about that. However I did like the bewildered "no!" he gave when the Roosh guy at the end said "well surely you'd had sex with a woman whilst she's half asleep?!".

[UkmmTheSecond]

I was when that blond guy (Milo?) was excusing online rape threats because they weren't meant seriouslyand were just a harmless language used by men when they lose their temper. I mean how are the women receiving them supposed to know if they are meant seriously or not?

I've seen that blond guy do an interview on some programme, I can't remember what it was, and his argument booked down to, he might grow old alone, because women are allowed to be fat and ugly now so he doesn't want them, but the pretty intelligent girls have choices and don't need to rely on men anymore so they don't want him, and it's all feminsim a fault. It wasn't those exact words but that's what I get from him. He might do well to look at himself and how he comes across and it might explain why women are avoiding him.

When he laughed at the rape threats he looked a bit sinister tbh, he said something like it's it's a power thing that men default to in arguments, in a similar to way to how threatening to punch a man in arguments.

I wish Reggie pulled him up on it because A) why threaten to punch a man and rape a woman? Why don't these men threaten to rape the men they disagree with too? Is it because they don't feel men have taken some if thier power away so don't need to exert any, a punch will do, wheras they are angry that women have a little power now and threatening to rape is a way of showing they can still dominate women and put the ones they disagree with back in their place? B) there is no way the women on receiving end know that they have no plans on acting on it, and the men know this, which is exactly why they use it, if it didn't frighten women they wouldn't bother saying it in my opinion. C) why is threatening any violence to women or men who disagree with them even a thing? Woukd they do this in real life and if not, why not?

But Milo more or less confirmed what I thought with his own words, the whole thing is about power and they really don't like women having any. If they thought their reasoning was appropriate Reggie wouldn't have struggled to find people who'd show their face on camera. I suspect people in their lives (esp women) have no idea what these men really think. Was it Germaine Greer who said some women have no idea how much they are hated?

[UkmmTheSecond]

Dd just said, it's like a child who needs apples, climbing to the top of the tree to pick apples, and then another child moaning it's not fair and wanting to take their apples away, when they could climb the tree and get their own apples. :)

[PassiveAgressiveQueen]

If they thought their reasoning was appropriate Reggie wouldn't have struggled to find people who'd show their face on camera.

They have problems finding gender critical people to appear on telly as well because they are scared of the audience.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

They have problems finding gender critical people to appear on telly as well because they are scared of the audience.

I'm not sure that's why.

People who are gender critical are no platformed, lose funding, lose their jobs and are treated to death and sexual violence threats, sometimes even from one or other of the men featured in the programme. Daubney and Milo make a good living slagging off women. Roosh V makes an equally good one advocating rape.

[TesticleOfObjectivity]

I've seen that blond guy do an interview on some programme, I can't remember what it was, and his argument booked down to, he might grow old alone, because women are allowed to be fat and ugly now so he doesn't want them, but the pretty intelligent girls have choices and don't need to rely on men anymore so they don't want him, and it's all feminsim a fault.

I know this isn't the point but I always thought Milo was gay.

[TheXxed]

Milo is gay.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Milo is fabulously gay. According to him

[Mide7]

I'm watching this now, I feel wrong by saying this I agree with some of what dappa laughs is saying.

Everyone at the moment seems to want freedom of speech until someone says something they disagree with. Where do we draw the line?

(Disclaimer I haven't watched it all yet)

[SheldonsSpotOnTheCouch]

I dont think it's about disagreeing Mide. Freedom of speech is great and a right which should be protected. Hateful, misogynistic, racist, homophobic comments that minimise and encourage violence are something completely different imo.

I wish men could talk about and lobby for services and support without being derogative towards women and blaming feminists.

And :-o to the awful idea that rape committed on private property shouldn't be classed as a crime.

[Mide7]

No perhaps disagreeing is the wrong word but there is a fine line between saying something critical and then being hateful, homophobic or whatever.

Look at the trans threads on here, I don't many people on the feminist board would say they are transphobic but show some of the posts to a trans activist and it would be bordering on a hate crime.

[BartholinsSister]

Is it acceptable to say something hateful about misogyny?

[DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease]

I can't watch things like this, makes me scared of the world, the way some people can't turn off the lights for a while after horror movies. Though being able to discuss the issues brought up in a safe environment (like these boards?) afterwards might help. In the past my anger and frustrations with the views espoused has turned to anger and frustration with myself for not feeling like I am able to challenge or change things. Does anyone else have a similar response to programs like this?

[Greydog]

Just watching this now on i-player - I don't know what to say, it makes me so very sad, and like Decaff makes me worried for the world. I have thought for years that the treatment and attitudes to women have been going backwards.

[Seeyounearertime]

I watched it last night too.

I fail to see the appeal of Roosh? Why would men want to listen to his 'opinions' and why any woman would touch him or get anywhere near him is absolutely beyond me.

I also don't get the whole 'Men's Rights' thing?
It seems, from my limited view point, that they were basically saying,
"Noones talking about men's issues an its all the feminists fault"
But that argument is flawed from the get go. They seem to dislike feminist tarring all men with the same brush but think nothing of tarring all feminists with one brush? Weird.

As for 'Milo' and his men and women using different language, the only language I wanted to use was to call him a jackass.
Free speech is fine, its a given right we all have. He didn't seem to graps that saying,
"I disagree with you and this is why....."
Is a world away from,
"I disagree with you so piss off or I'll do horrible and unspeakable things to you because you're just a woman"

But yeah, interesting, I'll go back to lurking now

[ChocChocPorridge]

I don't think it is so hard to tell the difference between critical speech and hate/threatening speech just as Seeyou says

I shall illustrate through conversations with my toddler

Me: put on your shoes please
Them: No

this is a normal and fine conversation, I will tell them to put on their shoes and they eventually will (or I will carry them bare foot to the car and put them on later)


But my kids have all been through phases where a conversation will go like this (and bear in mind, they're pretty good kids, I don't need to tell them off much, and I've never smacked them) -

Me: put on your shoes please
Them: No - and if you tell me again I will kick you

This is an unacceptable conversation and they will receive the lecture on how they will not kick, how that is not something you do to other people. Someone - and since their adults, it's going to have to be the police - needs to have a word with these people and remind them that in civilised society we don't go around threatening people with rape and murder.

[Mide7]

I think a threat of violence is an obvious example Choc but take for example the things that Tyson fury said about women boxers and Jessica Ennis. I'm sure he wouldn't say there was anything wrong with those views and they are definitely not violent but I doubt anyone here would disagree they are misogynistic.

Unfortunately I think the belief that if you're white, straight and male that society is against you is fairly common. So people like Milo and Roosh will have a following because they are willing to say things that are large number of men feel they can't. I can almost see where they are coming from but IMO it's more that people are trying to challenge a status quo.

[grimbletart]

I posted this extract below on another thread that mentioned the Reggie Yates programme.

The whole male resentment/discrimination issue was summed up near the beginning of the Reggie Yates film by that clot Roosh, who said: "Women are no longer trained to submit to a man, to serve a man."

That's what's going on with these men - the resent losing the submissive little wives/girlfriends, who they think is their inalienable right to possess.