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Consequences of the skewed sex ratio in China

(19 Posts)
VestalVirgin Tue 15-Dec-15 12:43:59

As I heard they were relaxing their one child policy and things seemed to get better, I googled the topic, and found this:

www.allgirlsallowed.org/gender-imbalance-china-statistics

The crime statistics are worrying. They crime rate has doubled.

'*"It was found that sex ratios and crime rate were connected, with just a one percent increase in sex ratio leading to a five percent increase in crime rate."*

Now, I don't live in China, so it doesn't affect me, but countries with internal troubles tend to being wars to distract the population.

Are you worried, too? And if not, why not?

I hope someone has good news ... other than this will have improved about fifty years from now. sad

grimbletart Tue 15-Dec-15 13:15:39

Logic would suggest that a scarcity of girls would improve the status of women i.e. they would be rarer and therefore more "valuable". But sexism isn't logical, so a surplus of men is already leading to bride napping, more crime from disaffected males etc. Added to that China (unlike the UK) sees higher suicide rates among women than men.

As for starting wars as a distraction, we are already seeing Chinease expansionism in the South China Sea with airbases being built on the islands and both military and civilian craft flying in international airspace being warned off by China, which is claiming the entire sea as its territorial waters.

However, the Chinese are very far from stupid and with their tremendous industrial and commercial expansion and investment in Africa, they really don't need a war.

MephistophelesApprentice Tue 15-Dec-15 14:11:10

It led to the legalisation of homosexuality, which is nice.

But I'm with VestalVirgin on the war concerns. Large groups of frustrated young men create internal pressures to 'dispose' of them and war is a particularly efficient way of doing so. We should be glad China is not a democracy - imagine the impact of that much male dissatisfaction on their political policies.

BarbarianMum Tue 15-Dec-15 14:17:44

<<Logic would suggest that a scarcity of girls would improve the status of women i.e. they would be rarer and therefore more "valuable".>>

I think they are seen as more valuable, but as a possession/resource rather than as people hence the increased crimes against them.

I do worry about China diverting its population from challenging the status quo by stoking patriotism by war-mongering. But I actually think the lack of democracy is the real issue here and makes it more, not less, likely.

HermioneWeasley Tue 15-Dec-15 14:21:08

When I hear of China's missing women, I over optimistically thought too that it might mean better rights for women and girls. Of course, it never works out that way, so sexual assault and kidnapping it is.

Women ALWAYS get the shitty end of the stick

VestalVirgin Tue 15-Dec-15 14:35:26

But I actually think the lack of democracy is the real issue here and makes it more, not less, likely.

Not so sure ... the aggressive single men are such a large percentage of the population that, in a democracy, they could legalize rape, and start a war.

Of course a democracy would never have gotten through with the one child policy, so the situation wouldn't exist in the first place.

It all depends on what the government considers a good method to solve this problem. If the government decided that a war is a good idea, then it's not better than it would have been in a democracy, yes.

@Hermione: Do we? I don't know how the situation in England was when there were so many unmarried women that the "spinster aunt" became a common stereotype.
Was there more crime against women, too?

grimbletart Tue 15-Dec-15 14:36:04

Yes BarbarianMum: I agree. That's why I put valuable in inverted commas.
smile

BarbarianMum Tue 15-Dec-15 14:47:59

<<I don't know how the situation in England was when there were so many unmarried women that the "spinster aunt" became a common stereotype.
Was there more crime against women, too?>>

I don't know but I think of these periods as being after wars, esp WWI. So not the same because it was men who were scarce, not women. And rather than competing for men, many of these unmarried women used their time to improve their lot - better education, better careers. Being single generally conferred more freedoms than being a wife/mother (although I'm not suggesting it didn't cause problems too).

VestalVirgin Tue 15-Dec-15 14:54:18

So not the same because it was men who were scarce, not women.

Sure, it was different. This was in response to Hermione writing that women always get the shitty end of the stick. Which I don't think is true, see the situation after WWI.
Maybe she didn't refer to changes in sex ratio in general, though. It is true that whenever the burden of a negative social development can be shifted onto women, men will do so.

BarbarianMum Tue 15-Dec-15 15:20:16

It's interesting, isn't it? I've always wondered about the medieval period, when so many people joined monastries/nunneries, thereby removing them from the breeding population. I know younger sons were often given as children but were equal numbers of girls, or was it more for older women/widows? Was this a practise to 'get rid' of excess males who'd otherwise need land/jobs/wives, did it cause a gender imbalance? And how did it affect society and women in particular.

No idea, but I'd love to know.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Tue 15-Dec-15 17:44:58

There were far more monks than nuns and yes I think it was a way to get rid of excess sons without having to split your lands up by giving some to them. I am not conscious of this leaving lots of spare unmarried women, though, so not sure what happened to them - perhaps relative life expectancies for the two sexes were different from today, what with childbirth killing about one in ten women.

VestalVirgin Tue 15-Dec-15 19:55:56

I am not conscious of this leaving lots of spare unmarried women, though, so not sure what happened to them - perhaps relative life expectancies for the two sexes were different from today, what with childbirth killing about one in ten women.

I think I read somewhere that after WW1 was the first time when medicine was progressed enough that most women survived giving birth, while war had become a lot deadlier due to guns. Before that, more women died in childbirth than men in war.

So, that's likely.
And one never knows ... there might have been a bit of infanticide going on, too. It's not just China. I have heard of people pitying a family with four daughters in Germany.

China is going to have to build a lot of monasteries, and change its politics towards religion, I guess. wink

BarbarianMum Tue 15-Dec-15 20:01:48

My (German) great grandmother was the victim of a forced marriage at the end of the 19th century. Was quite common in the villages apparently. Infanticide wouldn't surprise me at all.

VestalVirgin Tue 15-Dec-15 20:53:34

My (German) great grandmother was the victim of a forced marriage at the end of the 19th century. Was quite common in the villages apparently. Infanticide wouldn't surprise me at all.

shock That's very recent. Was it more of a social pressure thing where her parents threatened to kick her out if she didn't obey, or a literal, knife-at-throat force?

BarbarianMum Tue 15-Dec-15 21:43:58

She was in love with the baker's son, her parents didn't approve. One day she came home to find her mother making her a new dress - her wedding dress. She was told she was marrying the butcher from the next village the next day and that's what happened. I don't know whether they needed a knife exactly, just that she didn't want to - but she was 17 and lived at home so probably felt she had no choice. Wasn't allowed to see her sweetheart again til after the wedding when it was 'too late'. Was a miserable marriage - he was a drunk sad

I was quite shocked when my mum told me - thought that sort of thing died out s long time ago in Europe.

VestalVirgin Tue 15-Dec-15 23:00:52

shock
Yeah, I would have thought that, too. Parents disapproving of a man, sure, but I thought it ended there.

You'd think they'd at least disapprove for a good reason, but as their choice was a drunk, obviously not. sad

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest Wed 16-Dec-15 15:25:24

It's not just China though - it's an issue for lots of other countries, particularly those in the ME. It's a real worry for countries who have a bubble of young, angry men and usually goes hand-in-hand with poor employment levels as well.

These men have fewer links to society and are significantly more likely to become idealised / radicalised in a search to blame someone. There was a lot of writing about how there was trouble brewing due to this exact phenomenon prior to the Arab spring and it's partially why the oil-rich Arab nations are so eager to spend £££ on non-jobs, paying for weddings and first houses for married couples etc to try to maintain a false stability.

moonstruckl8 Wed 16-Dec-15 16:36:58

Yes that's always been the tried and tested way to settle a young disaffected man down oneflew - get them to marry and that is thought to ground them in ordinary life and domesticity and family. cat Steven's 'father and son' was about this, except the son in the end decides to go off and fight with/against(?) the communists. In the ME it's mainly an economic issue not demographic, young men cannot afford to marry and set up a household as there are no jobs and so there's much disaffection as marriage is seen as the gateway to respectsbility (it has a different status in such traditional societies than in the West.) plus in traditional socieities where sex before marriage is frowned upon theres alot of sexual frustration also.the gulf countries spend a lot of money and propaganda on this group of the population where the biggest threat to their undemocratic monarchical rule would come from. In the west such disaffected alienated young men turn to xenophobic far right groups for some feeling of belonging to society and status. Combat 18, national front, EDL, and whatever the equivalents in the usa (where the big threat of domestic terrorism looms from). The equivalent of such white supremacist groups in the muslim world are the violent extremist ISIS, boko haram, taleban, shabaab, Al Qaeda, who prey on such young men for recruits.

VestalVirgin Wed 16-Dec-15 19:49:44

Governments should do more to encourage an even sex ratio in offspring.

So far, 1,08 is still considered natural - this means 8 excess males per 100 baby girls being born. That may have worked in the times when it evened out because male babies were more prone to infection, but now we have antibiotics and all that.

And the government of Liechtenstein doesn't seem concerned about a sex ratio of 1,26 at birth. www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/geos/ls.html

I hope there's no infanticide going on there, but if not that, what else?

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