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Islamaphobia?

(539 Posts)
Onnedheil Wed 09-Dec-15 12:36:56

So, as feminists, women, fighting against patriarchy, against rape culture against male violence to women. My question is this.

Are we suddenly now supposed to be supporting a religion that is an actual rape culture, Openly accepted paedophilia, actual supremacy of toxic masculinity an actual patriarchy Which is responsible for female genital mutilation , based on a the word of a paedophile warmonger who propagates a monotheist singular God who is male .

And when Anyone, speaks out about these things We're labelled as a racist and as islamaphobe and told to silence our voice for the religion of peace?

Have I ended up in the twilight zone or something?

GreenTomatoJam Wed 09-Dec-15 12:44:41

You can't single out Islam for those things - have you looked at Christianity recently? All of those things are done in its name too.

By all means be against organised religion, but it is certainly islamophobic to only accuse muslims of these things.

Thefitfatty Wed 09-Dec-15 12:47:08

I second GreenTomatoJam All those things are done in Christianity's name as well. Bit hypocritical to only speak out against one.

BertrandRussell Wed 09-Dec-15 12:47:41

"And when Anyone, speaks out about these things We're labelled as a racist and as islamaphobe and told to silence our voice for the religion of peace?"

Are we?

VestalVirgin Wed 09-Dec-15 12:48:08

Since when are we supposed to support Islam? Is this about this one single thread about supporting Muslims somewhere in the general chat forum?

Islam is not feminist, correct. Neither is Christianity, as it is practised nowadays. This is all just a red herring.

Yes, we ought to fight Muslim men who want to take away our rights. But we also ought to fight the nationalist extremists that want to take away our rights by pointing at those "evil" Muslims. And the Christian extremists who want to take away our bodily autonomy.

Our enemy is not Islam, it is patriarchy. Keep that in mind.

I think it is rather interesting that you are so offended by accusations of Islamophobia, but are happy to accuse others of transphobia.

I am also surprised that you are surprised that feminists are asked to be "politically correct". You are doing just the same with your lamentations about "transphobia."

When women are hurt, we need to point that out, unafraid of any accusations of -phobia.

BertrandRussell Wed 09-Dec-15 12:48:49

I don't think Christians practice FGM, to be fair. But not all Muslims do either. And people do who are not Muslim.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thefitfatty Wed 09-Dec-15 12:50:05

Christians in parts of Africa do indeed practice FGM. It's a cultural thing, not a religious dictate.

www.stopfgmmideast.org/background/islam-or-culture/

niminypiminy Wed 09-Dec-15 12:52:49

With an OP like that it's going to be pretty difficult for Muslim feminists - or indeed feminists of other faiths - to want to enter the debate. Open mind? Not so much.

VestalVirgin Wed 09-Dec-15 12:54:15

I don't think Christians practice FGM, to be fair. But not all Muslims do either. And people do who are not Muslim.

Actually, Rüdiger Nehberg managed to convince almost all Islamic religious authorities to speak out against FGM, and is now planning to get this message out in Mekka. His modus operandi is basically convincing Muslims that FGM is un-Islamic.

FGM is more of a cultural thing than a religious thing, and I'd wager most of the misogyny in Islamic countries is also more culturally motivated than religious.

Onnedheil Wed 09-Dec-15 12:54:29

I'm not singling out Islam, I abhor all religions that propose an after life under punishment of an imaginary person, But if i call out Christianity for these things im not silenced to threatened with hate crime action told that i am a racist for speaking out against a fascist ideology. Or told i'm wrong about the facts. Or that I am a christianphobe. You understand that its a disproportionate response that is not on the same level.

We're being told to silence our voice against Islam and what it stands for.

And the thing that upsets me more than anything is that LGBTQ women who claim to be feminists are the ones who are silencing the voice of truth. How can any feminist claim to be a feminist and stand for equality when in the next breath they put on a hijab bow down to the patriarchal oppressive regime of islam and then tell anyone who speaks out to silence their voice because of racism ( Im looking at you Kathleen Wynne ) What an utter betrayal of all things feminist to then defend the very kinds of crimes we're supposed to be committed to fighting against.

its like a dagger in my heart.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell Wed 09-Dec-15 13:02:22

I've been called a Chritisianophobe.

<misses point, rather>

BertrandRussell Wed 09-Dec-15 13:04:48

No, I haven't. I don't know what one of those is. A Christianophobe.

Onnedheil Wed 09-Dec-15 13:05:12

I know a lot of people dont really know about Islam. I encourage you to watch the videos and read the Books of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Become informed. the religion the book Islam is not about peace. She wants reform and her voice is being silenced. Read her work, listen to her speak. Ayaan wants a reformation, she wants reform of islam because the reality is the truth of the book is that thier culture and religion are one. And I just dont even know how any woman could ever willingly bow down to Patriarchy, call themselves a muslim, then in the same breath knowing what islam is about say they are feminist. It's like oil and water. Patriarchy and feminism do not mix. And if you're a Muslim, you're part of patriarchy.

I can't say more or do more, honestly I am in hiding myself because i was the focus of a recent Islamic cultist attack. I cant say more. But I live in fear everyday. They won their victory over me. Dont let them win a total one.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali lives the truth everyday. I have the luxury at least to hide. She doesn't/

Its time we showed a real solidarity with her and women like her who are too afraid to speak out, or are too brainwashed to know any better.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Wed 09-Dec-15 13:05:28

Who is telling us to silence our voice against Islam? What are their interests? Are they the same people telling us to silence our voices against the patriarchy?

And whoever it is, why must we listen?

Dervel Wed 09-Dec-15 13:06:00

Actually I am an Islamaphobe inasmuch as the religion as it stands currently terrifies me. I am scared of it. I don't however want to be scared of it. Make of that what you will.

Onnedheil Wed 09-Dec-15 13:07:54

A phobia is an irrational fear. The fear you feel about islam is real. Its not a phobia.

Onnedheil Wed 09-Dec-15 13:14:18

Lonny, I know exactly what you mean, but I have spoken out about Islam and I have been told to silence myself or die.

Honestly. The thing that upsets me more than anything is that Women who claim to be feminists were the ones who silenced my voice. How did they do that? Because I had a very small platform for LGBTQ womens rights in London. Built on the formation of Pagan feminist Women who were LGBTQ sex positive women. But when i Spoke out against islam, I was removed from the platform for hate speech and racism.

Unfortunately there really is too much ignorance about islam, and too much right wingers who want to use it to push their ideology of racial purity etc.

Please, I encourage you all, read the books of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and watch her speak. She is the strongest voice in the particular debate.

I have to go now, I have a meeting with my Life coach who is helping me through the trauma of being the focus of this attack.

And thank you all for this dialogue, it means so much to me on a level i haven't felt for many months now. Thank you for making me feel heard again. I'll be back later if I can.

howtorebuild Wed 09-Dec-15 13:15:46

I am no fan of organised religion. I think in some countries the citizens mix religion and culture.

Moonatic Wed 09-Dec-15 13:20:22

So where exactly are all these Christians who are shooting schoolgirls for wanting to get an education, stoning women who have been raped, murdering daughters for "dishonouring" the family, throwing acid in the faces of "immodestly" dressed women?

Which Christian nation deems a woman's testimony to be worth exactly one quarter of a man's? In which Christian countries are women prohibited from leaving the house if they are not accompanied by a male guardian? Is there any Christian country where women are prohibited from showing their faces in public?

OurBlanche Wed 09-Dec-15 13:28:46

In America, shooting in schools, for a wide variety of equally ridiculous reasons.

That many Christian countries are 1st world, more socially evolved, purportedly more equal, means you are comparing apples with oranges. We have different reasons for our outrages, yet the outcome is often the same.

BertrandRussell Wed 09-Dec-15 13:31:02

"onny, I know exactly what you mean, but I have spoken out about Islam and I have been told to silence myself or die."

Who by?

VestalVirgin Wed 09-Dec-15 13:32:27

Which Christian nation deems a woman's testimony to be worth exactly one quarter of a man's? In which Christian countries are women prohibited from leaving the house if they are not accompanied by a male guardian? Is there any Christian country where women are prohibited from showing their faces in public?

America.

America, where a rape can be filmed and the rapists not be brought to justice. America, where women are raped for leaving the house without a male guardian. America, where men murder women for wanting to divorce them, and get to call it an accident, or just "manslaughter".

America, where a woman's nipple is more offensive than a depiction of violence.

Other patriarchies simply don't make it official how much they hate women. However, to many judges, a female rape victim's word is worth only one quarter (if that) of that of her rapist.

The differences are in degree, not in principle.

Who is telling us to silence our voice against Islam? What are their interests? Are they the same people telling us to silence our voices against the patriarchy?

There is some overlap, I'd wager. Some of the people who rally us to speak out against Islam are very creepy, though.

almondpudding Wed 09-Dec-15 13:44:34

I'm not really sure what it is you are saying.

But I don't find Muslim culture in the UK to be any more sexist than wider UK culture. My perception is that in some areas, it seems to be less sexist. It is generally not Muslim women in the UK who are brought up to believe that women are no good at Science, for example.

And that isn't because I'm particularly PC, silenced or scared of being called a racist.

It just isn't my experience.

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