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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NI Abortion Law

23 replies

PlaysWellWithOthers · 30/11/2015 11:49

The High Court in Belfast has ruled that NI's abortion laws are a breach of human rights law.

Breaking news here

Looks like Ulster will be forced to join the rest of the developed world in the 21st century over this at last!

Southern Ireland next!

OP posts:

Report

SiegeofEnnis · 30/11/2015 11:56

This just came up on my newsfeed - I haven't even had a chance to read up on the detail, but surely a cause for celebration. I don't think it will have a major impact on Ireland, though, as presumably the ruling involves the 1967 Abortion Act not being valid in NI, hence breaking human rights law for NI woman who want to terminate a pregnancy - and from a quick glance, it's only in very restricted circumstances - pregnancy as a result of rape and severe foetal abnormality?

LizKeen · 30/11/2015 11:59

Well, its something I suppose, but its not nearly enough.

ASAS · 30/11/2015 12:00

I say this every time abortion in NI/Eire is on here... Let's remember throughout this thread that woman desperately Googling may read our words, so choose words carefully. For example, "forced to join the 21st century", fair opinion but no need for women looking for information to read about how non-developed etc etc etc their friends, neighbours and elected politicians are. Remember it's friends, neighbours and politicians who have fought for this landmark decision. Many networks taking many risks over time. C'mon the sisterhood.

It's good news, no need to bash.

Please and thank you.

megletthesecond · 30/11/2015 12:05

Glad they've made the first steps towards abortion being more available. It's a start.

wigglesrock · 30/11/2015 12:11

I was just coming on to say what ASAS said, only they said it slightly calmer than I was going to. The last thing that women in NI or indeed Southern Ireland need are posters on MN using phrases like "forced to join the developed world". I'm delighted with the decision, I've been waiting on it this morning and I really wasn't sure how it was going to go (I live in NI).

Oh and NI and Ulster aren't the same place.

LizKeen · 30/11/2015 12:15

For example, "forced to join the 21st century", fair opinion but no need for women looking for information to read about how non-developed etc etc etc their friends, neighbours and elected politicians are.

Eh?

Please don't make issues where there are none. We need the discussion to be about the actual issue. It is not a surprise to anyone, least of all women in NI, that the politicians here are in dire need of being pulled into this century.

I live in NI. If I want to say the politicians are misogynistic dinosaurs I will. Thanks.

LizKeen · 30/11/2015 12:17

The last thing that women in NI or indeed Southern Ireland need are posters on MN using phrases like "forced to join the developed world".

Again, I cannot get my head around this stand point.

We DO need it. FFS its taking too long. Its a disgrace that NI is even fighting this issue in 2015, why is it not ok to say that?

BertrandRussell · 30/11/2015 12:18

Well, the politicians are being forced to join the developed world. Let's hope that the Church does sometime too. They are both being left behind by the people.

ASAS · 30/11/2015 12:30

I don't mean let's not talk about it. I mean let's not further stigmatise.

PlaysWellWithOthers · 30/11/2015 12:39

So the phrase "forced to join the the rest of the developed world in the 21st century over this" is bad... right.

I'm sorry that you extrapolated from that that I meant that either NI or Ireland wasn't part of the 21st century/developed world in everything, because it's fairly obvious that I didn't. I tend to assume that Irish women from both sides of the border are intelligent enough to realise that the words people write are the words they mean.

And thanks for the geography lesson. I so wasn't aware that Ulster and NI aren't the same, despite them being used interchangeably in news media all over the world for the last god knows how long. I'll name the counties in future, just to clarify things.

Anyway, to rewrite my OP so that everyone is happy...

Looks like Antrim, Armagh, Down, Fermanagh, Londonderry and Tyrone will be forced to join the rest of the developed world in the 21st century over this one issue, because I don't believe that the folks in Ireland are either stupid or backward at last!

OP posts:

LizKeen · 30/11/2015 12:49

OP I think your usage of Ulster was fine. Not technically correct, no, but it was commonly used in the past, and is still used occasionally today.

Sometimes it gets tiring having to explain the geography of NI. I can't speak for wiggles, but I think sometimes it makes us automatically look for the incorrect. So many people from the UK are very clueless about NI.

There are 9 counties in Ulster. 6 are the counties of NI and 3 are part of ROI.

VestalVirgin · 30/11/2015 13:00

It was about time.

I also think this should not be about modern/backward, it should be about acknowledging that women are human, and therefore have human rights.

Reproductive rights could be the most old-fashioned thing ever, and I would still be all for it.

I also hope it is understood that when I talk about those "wacky Americans" or about abortion laws in Ireland, this does not mean I think everyone there is misogynist ... I just think those with the most power are. I have a lot of sympathy for every sensible person whose home country is ruled by misogynists.

Elendon · 30/11/2015 13:05

I'm from Norn Iron, OP please don't worry about the terminology regarding what is Ulster.

What a wonderful decision, but, I'm frankly disgusted that legislation has to be laid down in such a way. It's a lazy political way to bring about change.

Having said that, these are HUGE giant steps. Bravo the courts. I hope this isn't the end of it. It's certainly a foot in the door. We who think that women should be seen as humans with full bodily autonomy, will never let the door close. It will be eventually brought in line with the UK.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 30/11/2015 13:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elendon · 30/11/2015 13:13

Buffy, it breaches human rights.

Yes, Northern Ireland is not in line with other European Countries (Ireland has an exemption also, but they have already brought in legislation to cover what was decided in this ruling - Northern Ireland was behind).

A ruling is a ruling though.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 30/11/2015 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

meditrina · 30/11/2015 13:22

I've just seen this in the news, and it appears to refer to terminations in cases of incest and rape, and TMFR for lethal conditions. Not bringing in to line with rest of UK.

VestalVirgin · 30/11/2015 13:23

What a wonderful decision, but, I'm frankly disgusted that legislation has to be laid down in such a way. It's a lazy political way to bring about change.

What would you have preferred? I.e. what would have been less "lazy"?

I obviously would have preferred for politicians to realize that women are human, but I am used to being disappointed in that regard.

Elendon · 30/11/2015 13:28

It's more just a wording issue. Ulster is a province in all of Ireland but it's also used to connotate an allegiance with strict union Protestants, who wish to keep the union. Northern Ireland is used by those who are mainstream and also wish/may not wish to keep the union.

Norn Iron is a term used by those who care not about such things and don't take themselves too seriously. Personally, though born a Catholic, I don't care either way, so long as everyone lives together in peace. The irony is Scotland's major party wants independence, it's mainly Scottish descendants living in Norn Iron who want to stay within the UK.

Complicated? Both the Unionists (Protestants) and Sinn Fein (Catholics) want restrictions on abortion laws. On that they both agree.

Thank goodness I don't live there anymore.

Elendon · 30/11/2015 13:33

Re lazy legislation, Vestal, I'd have hoped that 50% of the population weren't seen in such a way that their lives didn't matter by those who legislate for them.

It can be done with same sex marriage, it can be done with full bodily autonomy.

You weren't brought up in such an oppressive patriarchal way, I was.

Heckler · 30/11/2015 14:02

It is still pretty restricted access, but a step in the right direction

VestalVirgin · 30/11/2015 14:35

Re lazy legislation, Vestal, I'd have hoped that 50% of the population weren't seen in such a way that their lives didn't matter by those who legislate for them.

I wouldn't call that lazy ... more "nasty" or such. It sure is disappointing that the governments have to be forced to treat women like human beings by the courts.

I hope more steps in the right direction will be made.

Andrewofgg · 01/12/2015 17:24

Link to the complete judgment:

www.courtsni.gov.uk/en-GB/Judicial%20Decisions/PublishedByYear/Documents/2015/%5B2015%5D%20NIQB%2096/j_j_HOR9740Final.htm

Two cheers, NI friends, but it's a start.

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