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The NHS Website...

(12 Posts)
NoodleEatingPoodle Sat 21-Nov-15 00:23:15

... states that ^*gender*^ develops in the womb.

"Much of the development that determines your gender identity – the gender you believe yourself to be – happens in the womb (uterus).

The female hormones work in harmony on the brain, reproductive organs and genitals, so that the sex and gender are both female.

The testosterone and other hormones work in harmony on the brain, reproductive organs and genitals, so that the sex and gender are both male.

Therefore, in most cases, a female baby has XX chromosomes and a male baby has XY chromosomes, and there is no mismatch between biological sex and gender identity."

This is stated without qualification, as if it is a factual, proven, known medical reality, similar to "white blood cells are part of the immune system". Has the gender question been settled? Did I miss that conclusive study?

Meanwhile the Oxford dictionary website states that "although the words gender and sex both have the sense ‘the state of being male or female’, they are typically used in slightly different ways: sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender refers to cultural or social ones."

Maybe I was naive, but I really didn't realise how far down the rabbit hole we were. The NHS is describing on their website the developmental process by which a foetus develops the cultural and social differences between women and men. What. The. Fuck.

howtorebuild Sat 21-Nov-15 00:27:13

There is an nhs consultation.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/nhs-mandate-england-consulation-deadline

VestalVirgin Sat 21-Nov-15 08:08:59

There seems to be a misconception about sex dysphoria and gender dysphoria. (Apparently they haven't read the Oxford dictionary)

Here: thinksteroids.com/community/threads/prenatal-exposure-to-diethylstilbestrol-des.134253671/ it says that exposure to hormon-like substances in the womb can cause transsexuality. I can believe that - but it would be about what sex organs the brain expects to be there. Not about whether someone likes the colour pink and wants to wear pretty dresses.

GreenTomatoJam Sat 21-Nov-15 08:36:07

Dear Lord - we've gone back 100 years!

At least they do acknowledge biological sex, but to then suggest that the brain has a gender with no evidence is unbelievable.

tribpot Sat 21-Nov-15 08:43:23

This seems to be inconsistent with their description of sex and gender on the gender dysphoria page.

I've mentioned this before about NHS Choices - there is an editorial policy and if you want to challenge its content you should do, following the procedure that's mentioned on the same page.

thedevilinmyshoes Sat 21-Nov-15 12:42:48

is it the same nhs site that also describes mood disorders as arising from 'chemical imbalances in the brain' a term conspicuous by its absence from scientific literature?

tribpot Sat 21-Nov-15 12:45:29

It doesn't seem to have a page for mood disorders but it does use that form of words to describe bipolar disorder.

thedevilinmyshoes Sat 21-Nov-15 12:49:51

Oh that's right, thanks. Yes like insulin for diabetes except without anyone ever measuring the levels of these chemicals!

thedevilinmyshoes Sat 21-Nov-15 12:52:58

Anyway disturbing that so much on NHS site is such shit!

tribpot Sat 21-Nov-15 14:24:54

I've compared it with the wording on Patient.co.uk - it is certainly less definitive, saying The exact cause [of bipolar disorder] is not known. However, your genetic 'makeup' seems to play a part, as your chance of developing this condition is higher than average if other members of your family are affected... It is thought that an imbalance of some chemicals in the brain may also be present in people with bipolar disorder.

Again, both sites are reviewed by clinicians but both can have their content challenged.

thedevilinmyshoes Sat 21-Nov-15 14:28:45

well that's a bit more like it, obviously biochemical stuff goes on but it's ridiculous and unhelpful to suggest it as sole cause and erase all other determinants

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid Sat 21-Nov-15 15:09:53

A lot of animal studies do show that hormone levels at certain critical periods affect how the brain develops.

In humans the critical period appears to be fairly early on in pregnancy (I think it's the end of the first trimester but would have to check).

How your "gender identity" and sexual identity are influenced in the womb appears to have many factors, not all of which are well understood.
For example some studies have shown a man is more likely to be homosexual if he has older brothers (this doesn't work if those older brothers are adopted or are stepbrothers on the fathers side). This appears to be due to factors within the womb.

It's all very interesting.

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