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A Few Rambunctious Questions

(31 Posts)
Liefhelm Wed 18-Nov-15 23:26:35

Has feminism brought women and men closer together?
Are feminists shit-testing white men to see how much they will give them?
Have feminists been useful idiots for the government to get more women into work?
Do lesbianic feminists have too loud a voice in the movement?
Would you rather be a mother to your children; or, have the state take care of them?
Are the breaking down of gender roles leading to a lot of very confused people?
If there is a societal collapse, will women and men return to more traditional gender roles?

IShouldBeSoLurky Thu 19-Nov-15 00:03:17

1. What do you think?
2. What do you think?
3. What do you think?
4. What's "lesbianic"?
5. What do you think?
6. What do you think?
7. What do you think?

HoneyDragon Thu 19-Nov-15 00:05:11

I don't think rambunctious means what you think it means.

BertrandRussell Thu 19-Nov-15 00:10:48

Here we go again!
1. Why should it?
2. No
3. No- but the issue is complex
4. No
5. Daft question
6. Not people with brains, no
7. Hypothetical- who knows?

WombOfOnesOwn Thu 19-Nov-15 00:33:52

1. Feminism is about ending women's oppression; oppressors don't usually like this. Did slavery abolitionism bring slave owners and slaves closer together?

2. This may shock you, but feminism isn't about showing off to men at all. It's about ending women's oppression.

3. As a Marxist feminist, I find this to be a poorly-phrased but actually interesting question. Certainly I believe wage suppression has been pinned on women; however, it would have been just as easy to have responded to the surging women's work force by reducing the number of hours for a "full time" position--in the mid-19th to mid-20th century, the number of hours in a full time worker's week dropped steadily, and most thinkers thought it would continue to. Women are perhaps a convenient scapegoat for the cessation of this trend, but did not themselves create it.

4. Lesbians are critical to feminism and their voices should be heard. I'd actually like to hear more from them, not less.

5. I'm an expectant mother to my future son, and my husband is planning to be a stay at home father. Perhaps if the work week was reduced (see #3), shared parenting and stay at home dads would become significantly more common. There are feminists, usually radical separatists, who would prefer for children to be raised outside of traditional "family" structures, but I do not believe any of them would prefer, say, state foster care as it is currently implemented to a loving family.

6. Did the end of chattel slavery lead to a lot of people who were very confused about their social roles? Yes, it really did. Does that mean it shouldn't have been ended? No, it really doesn't.

7. Another actually interesting question. I believe the answer to be "yes," for the most part. In times of social upheaval, oppression often spikes, and not just on the sex axis. The "woman question"--whether female human beings deserve a role in society equal to that of men--has been coming up for centuries and centuries in many, many places. Typically, when the "woman question" is decided in a way that leads to reduced oppression of female human beings, progress is reversed by social upheavals. However, there are exceptions: the Black Death, for instance, led to a couple of generations of increased prosperity and more equal gender roles. Without knowing the exact nature of the social upheavals to come, it is difficult to forecast an answer with any accuracy. I will go with "it will probably lead to more segregated gender roles, unless it involves a large die-off of the male population." Typically, women's roles become more diverse and equalized when men die off (there's a reason suffrage for women kicked off when it did), and more constricted when population surges and people are pushed out of the labor market.

reni2 Thu 19-Nov-15 00:51:00

1. I don't think this was feminism's aim. Does patriarchy bring women and men together?
2. Having googled what a shit test is, I won't lower myself answering that.
3. No, but women have wanted financial independence and there has been some progress on that.
4. Define lesbianic (better than the urban dictionary), but lesbians being women, yes they do have a loud voice and rightly so. Many lesbians were at the forefront of the women's movement.
5. A parent, together with my partner.
6. People of intelligence cope.
7. I think many people will revert, but I don't think it would be a useful thing to do.

8. Do you think rambunctious=knobheadish? Fuck off.

BriarRainbowshimmer Thu 19-Nov-15 06:59:19

Thanks, lesbianic is a great and useful word.

Has patriarchy brought women and men closer together?
Are men shit-testing women wordwide to see how much they will put up with?
Have male workers been useful idiots for the government? Do we need Marxism?
Would you rather be a father to your children; or, willingly leave all childcare to women?
Do men have too loud a voice in the movement/in general society?
Are the keeping of gender roles leading to a lot of very unhappy people?
If there is a societal collapse, will women and men return to more equal gender roles like during WW2?

PS) "Shit-test" is a weird MRA thing. Just FYI everyone.

BertrandRussell Thu 19-Nov-15 07:02:07

But I do hope he's not deleted. So much better to let them show themselves for what they are.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight Thu 19-Nov-15 07:02:25

Just a googled shit test. It's an MRA/red pill/misogynist concept and I therefore call goady fucker and will not respond to your nonsense. Go and play somewhere else you silly boy.

FreshwaterSelkie Thu 19-Nov-15 07:04:15

Well, shit test is a new one on me. But that's all I learned from the dudely post. 1/10. Could do better. Off you pop now, back to the MRA boards and tell them you showed us!!!1!1!

Cerseirys Thu 19-Nov-15 07:05:22

I read that as "lesbionic" at first. Was imagining an army of bionic lesbians slowly destroying the patriarchy. It's a nice thought...

Rambunctious. Why do they think typing in the tones of a Dickensian schoolmaster makes them sound educated? It's the hallmark of a pillock.

FreshwaterSelkie Thu 19-Nov-15 07:09:29

Very true, Gilbert. It's up there with "methinks" and using "myself" instead of "me" as the litmus test for someone who's about 25% as bright as he thinks he is, and 100% more of a knob.

I'm quite interested in the lesbionic army, though, will it accept straight allies?

Cerseirys Thu 19-Nov-15 07:09:53

Hang on, is Burke the Berk back?

PlaysWellWithOthers Thu 19-Nov-15 08:13:17

Not rambunctious.

Neither noisy, nor boisterous nor uncontrollable.

Merely dull.

ChunkyPickle Thu 19-Nov-15 08:43:55

Has feminism brought women and men closer together?

Individual men - in a DP and I working together to build our life, shoulder to shoulder at the sink washing up or digging the garden way, yes.

Men and women in general - yes, I think so, since the alternative seems to be isolation - men doing one thing, women doing another, only meeting to have sex and eat meals.

Are feminists shit-testing white men to see how much they will give them?

No. Not that I really know what that means, but I'm guessing. We don't want to be 'given' anything like children granted presents or servants granted boons, we just want an equal chance at getting it for ourselves.

Have feminists been useful idiots for the government to get more women into work?

That's complicated - but I don't think that more women in work is a problem personally. I enjoy my work.

Do lesbianic feminists have too loud a voice in the movement?

I don't think they have a loud voice at all - and would have no problem if they were as loud as they want.

Would you rather be a mother to your children; or, have the state take care of them?

Can't I do both? But seriously. I gave birth to them, I feed them, clothe them, cuddle them and love them. I'm a mother. Do you mean a SAHM? Because no, I don't want to be that. It doesn't suit me at all. Ideally DP and I would both work 3-4 days a week, but that's not possible at the moment.

Are the breaking down of gender roles leading to a lot of very confused people?

I don't think so. I think it's freeing to be what you want and not be beholden to what's in your pants. Very few things need genitals to operate, so I don't think they should define how I spend my life.

If there is a societal collapse, will women and men return to more traditional gender roles?

Western society? Goodness knows. It's a common plot line in dystopian novels. I could certainly see there suddenly being a lot less women, as we're not used to considering how dangerous pregnancy and childbirth is. I suspect that that'll be a huge adjustment, going back to being pregnant most of the time, kids and women dying from lack of medical care (my kids and I wouldn't be here for instance), who knows though.

VestalVirgin Thu 19-Nov-15 12:15:49

Anyone else suspecting that threadstarter is a troll?

Some of your answers are really great, though. smile

@Bertrand: I reported him, but that was yesterday, so I suppose you don't have to worry, it was apparently decided to let him spew implicit misogynistic shit. (I suppose that's good because we don't have to shit-test him anymore, he revealed himself to be full of shit?)

Cerseirys Thu 19-Nov-15 13:10:12

Hah, I don't suspect he's a troll. I know it!

VestalVirgin Thu 19-Nov-15 13:33:33

Is there a known troll here?

There are two new threads which I suspect are by a troll, too.

SansaryaAgain Thu 19-Nov-15 13:35:42

It does sound like the aforementioned Burke, who was banned a few months ago.

VestalVirgin Thu 19-Nov-15 13:38:57

Seems someome removed the two new troll threads. Good. smile

VestalVirgin Thu 19-Nov-15 13:45:43

Ah, just seen, troll has been removed, only thread remains.

Have I mentioned I love mumsnet? It is all so nice and tidy and (mostly) troll-free here.

GirlSailor Thu 19-Nov-15 14:18:43

Lesbianic = satanic lesbian? Satanic Lesbian Feminists are surely a band somewhere.

cailindana Thu 19-Nov-15 14:33:09

Has feminism brought women and men closer together?
I don't know and don't really care. My aim is not to 'bring women and men closer together' it's to stop men treating women like shit.

Are feminists shit-testing white men to see how much they will give them?
On the basis of this question, it seems you believe that men are 'in charge' of everything and women have to play games to so men will give them things. Is that what you believe?

Have feminists been useful idiots for the government to get more women into work?
No. The government does manipulate and exploit people, but being a wage slave is infinitely better than being a slave to man who can hit and rape you with impunity.

Do lesbianic feminists have too loud a voice in the movement?
Lesbianic is not a word.

Would you rather be a mother to your children; or, have the state take care of them?
I'm not sure what box you've been living in, but you are aware there are other options besides these two?

Are the breaking down of gender roles leading to a lot of very confused people?
Far better confused people than people who are denied human rights.

If there is a societal collapse, will women and men return to more traditional gender roles?
Others have answered this question very well.

VestalVirgin Thu 19-Nov-15 14:50:47

Satanic Lesbian Feminists are surely a band somewhere.

Sounds like a band name, yes.

I heard that Dianic feminists (who worship the goddess Diana) are a thing. Makes more sense. I mean, Satan is male, according to most.

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