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Drag queens banned from Pride event "because they may offend transgender people"

(146 Posts)
CoteDAzur Tue 21-Jul-15 14:38:51

“The decision was taken by transgender individuals who were uncomfortable with having drag performances at the event. It was felt that it would make some of those who were transgender or questioning their gender uncomfortable."

So... Very male-looking transwomen making women uncomfortable in toilets and changing rooms everywhere is OK because their feelings can't be hurt, but crossdressers must be excluded from a Pride event because they might make trans people uncomfortable?

From London Evening Standard

LazyLouLou Tue 21-Jul-15 14:41:49

That has got to be the worst possible decision/reason I have ever heard.

I hope the backlash is extraordinarily glamorous smile

CherryBonBon Tue 21-Jul-15 14:44:28

What a load of shit.

I don't understand the problem trans or other feminists have with drag artists. I think they're fantastic and am unaware of how their existence negatively impacts mine.

I also don't think most drag queens regard themselves as crossdressers.

MonstrousRatbag Tue 21-Jul-15 14:48:12

There is no explanation of why they would, or might make trans or genderqueer people uncomfortable. It is a surprising decision, to me, and it is a shame it wasn't explained with a bit more analysis than 'might make trans people uncomfortable.'

CoteDAzur Tue 21-Jul-15 15:01:10

I used 'crossdresser' as a general term that would include all men who dress in women's clothes, shoes, etc. Was it wrong to assume that would include men who dress in drag for entertainment purposes?

ApocalypseThen Tue 21-Jul-15 15:31:44

I don't understand the problem trans or other feminists have with drag artists.

Many feminists, including me, regard drag as woman face - a vile performance celebrating the most misogynistic stereotypes of women.

ChunkyPickle Tue 21-Jul-15 15:57:02

It's a bit off that when it was women who were made a bit uncomfortable by drag artists then women were bigots and had to lump it. When it's trans who are made to feel a bit uncomfortable, they'll exclude them.

I don't mind people dressing up, even in hideously over-wrought caricatures of women - for me, it's the humour that often goes along with it - putting down women, that crosses the line.

TrollTheRespawnJeremy Tue 21-Jul-15 16:01:14

Apocalypse- but then not allll drag queens pander to that aesthetic.

A lot of them are politically inclined, make people question gender constructs and mock what society expects from women. That is to be applauded in my book.

The Glasgow event has been derided by not only Glasgow or Scotland but the entire International LGBT community. These people have clearly forgotten about Stonewall.

TrollTheRespawnJeremy Tue 21-Jul-15 16:03:53

To me this is beautiful, and should make people question what we consider the 'feminine aesthetic'.

There is no mockery of women here.

ApocalypseThen Tue 21-Jul-15 16:13:49

I think the humour and the grotesque appearance are two sides of the same coin, both representing women as shallow, vain, catty, stupid.

Mide7 Tue 21-Jul-15 16:27:34

I don't really like commenting on trans threads because what do I know about how women feel about men living as women confused

But chunky wouldn't it be like a drag queen coming to a feminist event? In the sense the audience have greater experience.
Or maybe a white comedian painting their face black and performing for a group of black people.

TrollTheRespawnJeremy Tue 21-Jul-15 16:35:01

I don't think that it is grotesque though. A lot of them are beautiful or interesting.

Humour wise- it depends who you're going to see I suppose. Not all drag queens are about humour though. Have you ever considered Drag Kings (women dressed as men?) I don't find that offensive either.

For a trans person to be offended by drag though- back on topic- I think it's just stupid. Drag queens/kings support them, there's a reasonable percentage who transition fully. Surely that would make them allies?

LazyLouLou Tue 21-Jul-15 16:39:40

It's just sad that one part of the LGBT community, who have stood up to be counted for decades now, are being demonised by another part. As though trans emotions are so much more worthy/delicate/to be protected than anyone elses.

Having seen some really good drag acts, the politicised ones who make your average feminist look faint hearted, I have no problem with them at all. They are all part of the great variety of life.

Thistledew Tue 21-Jul-15 16:43:32

I think that drag acts could be perceived as threatening to trans theory because a lot of drag artists don't actually pretend to be women. A friend of mine has a fantastic act that he does, which barely touches on 'being a woman'. It is just part of his normally softly-spoken, straight-acting personality that every now and then he like to dress up in a fantastic frock, the entire contents of his makeup bag, a massive wig and 6inch heels and to go around singing songs and making jokes (mostly about sucking cock) that would make Julian Carey blush. I don't even think that he would see that as 'expressing a feminine side'. It is just part of his identity as a gay man.

LazyLouLou Tue 21-Jul-15 16:48:56

It is just part of his identity as a gay man.


I would dispute the right of one LBGT group to denigrate the choices of any other. Just as I would any non LGBT group doing so.

TrollTheRespawnJeremy Tue 21-Jul-15 16:52:42

Exactly, you can't really say 'Drag is offensive to women' as there's a spectrum of Drag.

From pageant queens, insult queens, comic queens, Broadway queens, fishy queens, arty queens, celebrity impersonator queens, genderfuck queens, punk queens and everything in between.

They're not all the same and wouldn't even try to be.

ApocalypseThen Tue 21-Jul-15 16:56:47

Good old describing women as fish. How could drag possibly be construed as offensive to women? You'd have to be mad.

SunnyBaudelaire Tue 21-Jul-15 16:59:13

" How could drag possibly be construed as offensive to women? You'd have to be mad."

you are being ironic right?

BreakingDad77 Tue 21-Jul-15 16:59:44

Metro - though usually the more rubbish seemed to have quoted free pride differently with use of cis etc.

"‘It was felt by the group within the Trans/Non Binary Caucus that some drag performance, particularly cis drag, hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke, however transgender individuals do not feel as though their gender identity is a joke,’ the group said.
‘This can particularly difficult for those who are not out and still present as the gender they were assigned at birth. While it was discussed whether we could have trans drag acts perform, it was agreed that as it would not be appropriate to ask any prospective drag acts whether or not they identified as trans.’

Read more:"

TrollTheRespawnJeremy Tue 21-Jul-15 17:02:22

A fishy queen is a queen who looks particularly feminine and could almost pass.

It's 'fishy' because somebody might say "there's something fishy about her... I can't put my finger on it. "(Ie: it's actually a man.)

How is that offensive to women?

ApocalypseThen Tue 21-Jul-15 17:04:17

you are being ironic right?

Oh yes. I find it so incredibly offensive it makes me incoherent with rage. It's simply disgusting. And the idea that someone lists it as a type of drag act to illustrate that drag really isn't offensive is just beyond comprehension.

ApocalypseThen Tue 21-Jul-15 17:06:00

It's 'fishy' because somebody might say "there's something fishy about her... I can't put my finger on it. "(Ie: it's actually a man.)

No, it's a revolting allusion to the idea that women's vaginas smell of rotten fish.

Cocolepew Tue 21-Jul-15 17:10:49

Why all of a sudden are trans the special little snowflakes that nobody must annoy?

ChunkyPickle Tue 21-Jul-15 17:14:36

So this is where it starts getting a bit weird isn't it.

CIS drag in particular is the problem, and joking about gender.

So, the rules are: Women-born-women can dress as women, women-born-men can dress as women, but men-born-men can't (and no-one ever mentions men-born-women - but who probably no-one would mind dressing as a woman).

Nope. I reject those rules, and rules in general about what I'm allowed to wear and in who's presence (basic rules about nothing that shouldn't be hanging out excepted).

I can see that banning offensive jokes as fine, but again, I'm struck that making a joke of gender is apparently only now a problem that trans are offended by it.

TrollTheRespawnJeremy Tue 21-Jul-15 17:23:24

It has nothing to do with vaginas. If that's what you take from that then that's your issue. It is a common mistake.

That is not what it originates from.

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