Since when does 'Ms' means divorced?

[Nolim]

By reading another thread i found out that, according to a significant fraction of posters, the title Ms (as opposed to Miss or Mrs) is for divorced women! This is news to me!

For context English is not my first language. When i lived in the states i learned that Ms was invented to have a female title independent of marital status, just like Mr for men. I thought it was a brilliant idea and have used Ms ever since, as did the majority if women i met there.

Have i been self identifying myself as divorced all this time in the uk? I thought that the idea of Ms was to simplify the situation, not to make it more complicated!

[FannyFifer]

I have always been Ms, more likely to identify you as a feminist than a divorcee though.

[iwantgin]

I think that it used to imply that title is given to a divorcee - more so than nowadays.

currently work for the local authority in admin, and have to address all females as Ms.

Can't win though as some females don't like being called Ms - and say that they are married and want to be called Mrs.

[SecretSpy]

traditionally it was used by divorcees. But these days it just means that you identify as female and your marital status is no one's business but your own.

[SecretSpy]

I'm married and I chose to change my name but I used Firstname Secondname for everything or Ms if a title is required. Because it's irrelevant to anyone except me and my partner.

[exexpat]

Some people seem to think Ms means divorced, e.g. there have been various threads on here about official forms insisting that you put in previous names if you use Ms as a title, because it must mean you have been married/divorced and changed name, but there are many women like me who have always used Ms and have never changed their names or been divorced. I have used it with my never-changed name while single, married and widowed.

[ProfYaffle]

Years ago I had to fill in a CRB form, I was still unmarried at that point but using 'Ms'. I got my form returned asking for proof of my divorce!

[HazleNutt]

It was also used by divorcees, but the original aim of the title was not to advertise the marital status of the woman in question. I guess it is difficult for many people to understand why a woman might not want to go around telling everybody "I'm married!" and would choose Ms over Mrs.

You're right though that it's a British thing and in the US, Ms is used for all women.

[YvesJutteau]

It doesn't. It never has. It's only ever been a "not revealing marital status at all" title.

But there's also always been a minority of the public who believe that as managing to persuade a man to marry you is the pinnacle of possible female achievement then the only women who could possibly want to keep their marital status under wraps are those poor embittered souls who haven't managed to hang on to their man. Because if you're not married then you'll want to be Miss so that a man can raise that you are single and marry you, and if you ARE married then you'll obviously want to be Mrs so that you can show of your achievement, so Ms must mean divorced, mustn't it?

Sigh.

[wigglylines]

I've used Ms since I was a teenager, and I'm not married.

[cadno]

There is nothing stopping a divorced woman from calling herself, Mrs [former husband's surname] - if that what she chooses.

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

Yves, TBF, the CRB check made the same assumption in the past!

I can imagine that some divorced women first adopt Ms on divorce. But I doubt very much if the majority of Mses are divorced.

[AmyElliotDunne]

To be fair, I've only started calling myself Ms since splitting with XH.

When you're young and the default is Miss you often don't question it.

Once you get married the default is Mrs and some of us are quite excited at the prospect of becoming a Mrs so embrace it whole heartedly.

It's only when it goes wrong that you realise that the whole time your identity has been bound up in being someone's wife and wonder where that leaves you now...hence Ms on divorce, as I certainly don't feel like a Ms.

If I marry my DP in the future I will probably take his name (or at least D-B it) and become a Mrs again. Not sure why, just feels like the right thing for me!

I know for those who haven't embraced the tradition of name changing and becoming a Mrs it seems totally backwards and unnecessary, but I think in the 'romance' of marriage many women don't stop to consider the feminist implications.

[AmyElliotDunne]

*certainly don't feel like a MISS

[AmyElliotDunne]

That whole 'practising your new signature' thing - the frothy excitement of leaving your old self behind and becoming a 'proper grown up wifey' - it seems daft, but when you love someone becoming part of their family - and having that made official with names and titles - is enticing.

[funnyossity]

I'd never heard of it being "for" divorcees. There is nothing traditional about Ms in it's modern usage.

It was proposed as the equivalent for grown women of Mr.

[HazleNutt]

There are also a lot of people that believe that you must change your name and start using Mrs when married, or that you can't use Mrs if you keep your name. Also no idea where this is coming from.

[specialsubject]

Ms is the 'neutral' title, same as 'Mr' doesn't indicate marital status.

I have been Ms since I was about sixteen, regardless of my marriage. Recall with amusement returning to work after my honeymoon, to be asked 'so what do we call you now?'. I answered 'same as before' and that was that. Easy - and quite a good way of ascertaining what a newly-married female wants to do. Certainly no negativity.

I think the historical form was that women started as 'Miss Jane Smith', then became 'Mrs John Jones' (losing first name too) and would become 'Mrs Jane Jones' if widowed. A look on the Debretts website tells me that this was also the convention for divorcees.

but it isn't the fifties so it is up to you.

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

There are lawyers, eg the one who did our wills, who don't know the law in this area, so I'm not sure that you can say some people are knowingly wrong / they may have been badly advised!