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Clinically dead Irishwoman being used as human incubator

(323 Posts)
FayKorgasm Wed 17-Dec-14 21:18:47

I am on my phone so cannot link but I was reading an article about a pregnant Irish woman who is clinically dead being kept alive against her next of kins wishes. The Irish constitution gives equal right to life of both woman and foetus.

Very sad situation made a million times worse sad .

OmnipotentQueenOfTheUniverse Wed 17-Dec-14 21:40:14

here

This is appalling.

InanimateCarbonRod Wed 17-Dec-14 21:43:52

I don't understand why her family don't want to save her baby? I'm not a pro lifer or anything. I'm totally for the woman's choice. I just don't understand why...

mrscumberbatch Wed 17-Dec-14 21:46:45

Oh how would you choose in that situation??
That genuinely has me in a quandry. Poor family/baby/mother

fatterface Wed 17-Dec-14 21:49:40

Why don't they want to save the baby? They'd have to want to keep their daughter's body going for months so a baby can be born motherless, how horrific for them.

RJnomore Wed 17-Dec-14 21:49:48

No, I'm sorry, I agree with this.

The woman has nothing to gain or lose here.

The child may live and the wishes of the woman's parents should not trump that- it is not their body either? I presume this was a wanted pregnancy in saying this.

Viviennemary Wed 17-Dec-14 21:50:53

It's all very well being pro-choice but only for the person who is carrying the baby IMHO. I don't think grandparents should have the final say into whether the baby lives or dies. I think it's up to medical staff to make that decision in this very sad case.

FayKorgasm Wed 17-Dec-14 21:52:03

Thanks Omni.
Its not for us to judge why her parents made that choice, they have their reasons.
This is happening a few hundred miles from me across the water in my home country. I am ashamed.

PuffinsAreFictitious Wed 17-Dec-14 21:53:23

I hope the courts are able to decide what's best. Women are not vessels.

FayKorgasm Wed 17-Dec-14 21:54:25

This poor woman is clinically dead. They are keeping her body going until this foetus is viable. Even in death she is not entitled to her body.

RJnomore Wed 17-Dec-14 21:54:44

I am not.

If she is pregnant with a wanted child who may survive, it is not her parents decision morally. Again, not their body.

Bluestocking Wed 17-Dec-14 21:55:30

If the baby is successfully brought to term, who will bring it up? I can't see any mention of an involved father in that article. I wonder how you would feel knowing that you had been incubated in your brain-dead mother's body and then adopted.

slightlyworriednc Wed 17-Dec-14 21:55:55

I can't imagine being her parents in this situation, and there's no way to 'quantify' which would be worse...losing mother and baby, or waiting months for a baby with the mother on life support. That's no easy choice, and I'd say there's no good answer.

However, looking at it purely objectively, at least one of them has a chance to live, doing it this way? Why not save a life if we can?

I wonder what the baby's father thinks? Or what the woman herself would want, were she able to communicate? If that was me, I'd want them to save my baby if they possibly could.

MisForMumNotMaid Wed 17-Dec-14 21:56:50

How very, very sad for all involved, the women who has sadly passed, the family who can't properly mourn, the doctors, nurses and hospital staff who feel tied by complex law, the other patients in need of life support for the potential 6 months left for the foetus to grow to term, the foetus who will not hear a heart beat and normal happy sounds of life through the womb or movement of its mother stimulating it.

So glad its not a decision I'd have to get involved in.

FayKorgasm Wed 17-Dec-14 21:56:55

Her body is not her foetus body either. Her parents are her next of kin and in the position of making decisions for her as she is dead.

pixiestix Wed 17-Dec-14 21:57:42

God, what a horrible decision to have to make. That poor motherless child.

Pugsake Wed 17-Dec-14 21:59:27

Very sad. I wonder what the poor women's choice would be. I read a story today about a women who refused chemo as she was pregnant, she died a few months later which she knew she would.

I think if I was ever in that situation I would want my child to have a chance.

Her poor parents.

ArchangelGallic Wed 17-Dec-14 21:59:45

Where's the child's father in all this?

I'm guessing the parents want to end life support so they can start the grieving process. Maybe they're not in a position to look after the child and are uncomfortable about adoption.

It's a difficult decision for all involved.

Patonthehead Wed 17-Dec-14 22:00:03

I've read that she is early in second trimester, approx 16 weeks, and had been in life support for two weeks. I would have thought the mother's prognosis was very poor on life support with the risk of things like chest infections , pneumonia, thrombosis, etcetera. Will the mother even survive until the baby can be viably delivered? I live in Ireland and I find the legislation deeply depressing, especially in such a nuanced situation like this one.

QuickSilverFairy Wed 17-Dec-14 22:00:26

What a tragic story. I don't know what the right solution is..but she and her baby will be in my thoughts.

RJnomore Wed 17-Dec-14 22:04:07

Morally, Kaye, they are not in the position to make the decision to end that pregnancy.

Legally they may be next of kin but if this is a child which the woman wished to bear they have no moral right to end that.

I think if this was happening outside Ireland, but there was a debate about the pregnancy continuing, no one would be using words like "ashamed".

It hinges for me on what the woman wanted - I realise this is broadly irrelevant in Ireland but it is still her body, and I would like to see her wishes respected. To be honest, I don't see this as any different for the woman than the donation of organs to others. It is only the parents that are suffering trauma here.

FayKorgasm Wed 17-Dec-14 22:04:52

16 weeks,so a minimum of another two months and a very premature baby which may be left with the many complications of early delivery or just keep her incubating until term.

FayKorgasm Wed 17-Dec-14 22:08:48

I am ashamed that my own home country treats women in such a manner. This woman. The forced birth of a raped asylum seeker. The death of a miscarrying woman. Morals are subjective and personal to each person.

RJnomore Wed 17-Dec-14 22:13:11

Fay I am not Irish so two issues for me - the Irish treatment of women and then separately, the right of a wanted pregnancy to continue if possible.

I haven't sent he asylum seeker story but I was appalled at Thr woman who died miscarrying.

PossumPoo Wed 17-Dec-14 22:13:36

Fay you're wrong, her body is her foetus' body...how else would a baby survive ever to be born confused

You said it's not for us to judge the parents but we can judge the state's decision? Did the mother want to term the pregnancy? If not, then why shouldn't the baby be given a chance to live?

And why the fuck are you ashamed? I'd be proud that your country would be willing to spend the money to save a life. If it was the NHS you'd be hard pushed getting anything out of them.

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