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Can anyone help me with this?

(18 Posts)
JazzAnnNonMouse Thu 27-Nov-14 21:19:19

I'm new to feminist theory and still finding my feet with where I am with it all. Obviously I'm a feminist I'm just starting to read more things around it.
Someone posted this on my Facebook and id like a hand unpicking it because I'm struggling a bit! thoughtcatalog.com/tara-kennedy-kline/2014/11/i-am-a-mother-of-two-children-and-i-cannot-and-will-not-support-feminism/

I don't like that it says not a feminist but there are some things in it that I'm unsure of and would welcome all your opinions on it.
Thank you all

SevenZarkSeven Thu 27-Nov-14 21:34:37

Erm I could only manage the first couple paragraphs.

Speaking as a feminist and mother of 2 I would like to express my view that even the tiny part I read was the biggest pile of utter balls I have read in some time.

I can't be bothered to read it so why not cut and paste the bits that you are unsure about and we can tell you that. I don't think you can inflict that whole article on anyone really.

Amethyst24 Thu 27-Nov-14 21:43:03

Just to pick out one quote:

"I want my sons to love unconditionally and I want their partners to do the same. I want my sons to choose a partner who honors their manliness, strength, valor, chivalry and masculinity, and I am raising them to honor the qualities and virtues in their partner as well, even if those qualities include being maternal, ladylike, demure, and feminine."

That's not unconditional love, though, is it? What if her sons don't turn out manly, strong, brave and chivalrous? (Although I actually think chivalry is a good thing for BOTH sexes to display - what else is the caring that nurses do, or all the times a woman offers another woman a seat because she's pregnant, or frail, or whatever, if not chivalry? Chivalry is just a sexist term for kindness, politeness, and consideration of those who need one's help.)

What if her sons are <whisper> GAY? What if they fall in love with strong, independent, fiercely intelligent, courageous women who don't want to be mothers? She's imposing a huge burden on her boys there to be a certain way, and setting them up to fail at loving and being loved if they're not like that.

AmpleRaspberries Thu 27-Nov-14 21:44:37

Reads to me like she has had sons and realised how good things are for them and would now like it to stay that way.

She's also spectacularly missing the point about a lot of things, such as chivalry. Why can't she raise her sons to hold doors open for everyone?

Amethyst24 Thu 27-Nov-14 21:48:17

And this:

"Teaching my boys that they are somehow wrong, perverted or bad if they look at what is being flaunted in front of them is also making the job of parents a thousand times harder to have that conversation about steering clear of “easy” girls. And, let’s not assume for one second that there aren’t plenty of them."

I don't think any feminist would have a problem with anyone being attracted to another person, or acting on that attraction, provided there's enthusiastic consent from both sides. She's massively victim-blaming there, implying that if her precious boys succumb to the "flaunting" charms of an "easy" girl, it's her fault because she's a dirty whore.

SevenZarkSeven Thu 27-Nov-14 21:51:32

It's all 1950sl, surrendered wife type bollocks.

Why does she say of their partners "even if those qualities involve"... even if? Does she think those qualities are bad in some way?

I couldn't get past the bit where she was cheerleading for street harassment and so didn't grin

SevenZarkSeven Thu 27-Nov-14 21:53:27

I do not believe for a minute that article was written by someone who used to be a feminist in any way shape or form.

Feminists don't do virgin / whore, strict gender roles, yay to street harassment and even if they changed their mind about the movement for some reason they aren't suddenly going to be all yay for damaging gender stereotyping and harassment hmm

ChunkyPickle Thu 27-Nov-14 22:14:23

Do not follow any of the links - it just gets worse...

I hope that my two sons (once a lot older) will read things like that and think exactly what I do: what a load of bollocks.

Oh, and they already do nice things for DP, me, and each other, they already open and shut doors, help by getting things from other room, and are generally good, loving kids. No need to be taught some nebulous concept of masculinity or chivalry, they just are nice people, which is all I could hope no matter what genitalia are in their trousers.

grimbletart Thu 27-Nov-14 22:35:25

OK folks: this is an American site. Remember, Stepford Wives came from America. They do a good line in handmaidens.

Apologies to any American MNetters who are proper women.

Amethyst24 Thu 27-Nov-14 23:02:21

Seven I bet she used to think she was a feminist because she wore lipstick and short skirts and went to university.

JazzAnnNonMouse Thu 27-Nov-14 23:34:44

Thank you all! This was exactly whati needed -

AnyFucker Thu 27-Nov-14 23:35:55

That reminds me of that poster who called itself a woman that banged on constantly about how Feminists were trying to destroy her wonderful sons

JazzAnnNonMouse Thu 27-Nov-14 23:36:25

Sorry posted too soon!
This was exactly what I needed as I don't mind 'chivalry' but often it's just kindness and everyone can be chivalrous not just those with a penis.

PuffinsAreFictitious Fri 28-Nov-14 00:08:48

If that woman was ever a feminist, then I have just started a new and empowerfulising MRE group.

And yes AF, I agree, think she's still about, but has thankfully hidden this section.

SconeRhymesWithGone Fri 28-Nov-14 00:34:20

They do a good line in handmaidens.

We also do a good line in feminists. smile

SconeRhymesWithGone Fri 28-Nov-14 00:36:19

I also doubt that she was ever a feminist and agree that the whole post sounds like shoring up the patriarchy for her sons. But you don't have to go too far afield to read similar sentiments. There are many right here on MN.

Hazchem Fri 28-Nov-14 04:02:36

I am more of a feminist since giving birth to my son. Without being all what about the menz, it wasn't until I started raising a boy that I realised that the patriarchy could be harmful to men too. Feminisim has helped me see that and helped me want to change that for him, I want to change the way our society works for my self and for women but now I also want to see it be a better place for boys and men too. Stupid manly man stereotypes aren't good for men. The women is doing a disservice to her sons by setting them up to live in a world where they believe they are better then women.

uglyswan Sun 30-Nov-14 00:00:58

btw, thought catalog (your source) has a bit of a reputation of being a midden of ill-thought-out, goady and downright dangerous rubbish. Cf another US publication here: jezebel.com/why-53-writers-have-asked-thought-catalog-to-remove-the-1623468328

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