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Any good examples to help point out sexism to my DH?

(136 Posts)
BertieBotts Tue 25-Nov-14 20:26:20

As he announced this evening that I am "just looking for sexism everywhere" (Nope, not looking, it just is there) and he was upset that I saw the world as such a black dark evil place hmm (I don't).

I'm not particularly interested in explanations of privilege like the video game difficulty setting thing, just examples that he will "get". I used the example that a man might be upset if a man he knows wants to date his sister whereas a woman would never be upset at a woman wanting to date her brother, unless she thought the woman was a total psychopath. Well, that didn't work because he has 3 sisters, all an entire generation older than him so of course they have been overprotective and ridiculous over every GF he has ever had grin So I called "Friends" and he started making up arguments.

He gets the "big stuff", but he doesn't see the smaller, everyday type of feminism, and that's what I'd like to open his eyes to if possible. I know that a lot of it is just that it's invisible to him because it happens so often to women that we don't mention it and men, especially if they don't do it, don't realise that it's happening at all.

MyNameIsInigoMontoya Tue 25-Nov-14 20:29:49

Bechdel test? That's quite eye-opening if you start looking out for it I think. And Page 3?

grimbletart Tue 25-Nov-14 20:30:20

Instant e.g. Bertie - show him the thread that's just been started "Loving this sad face, mad face.."

BertieBotts Tue 25-Nov-14 20:30:27

Oops. Forgot to add. So I'm interested in examples of things where you see it and once you've seen it, it's so obvious you can't quite believe you didn't notice it before. Or it's so black and white and blatant that it can't be argued with. He has a fair few unsuspecting female friends at work, too, so anything I can ask him to canvass their opinions on, you know the stuff that women all innately know but men don't, I've seen a couple of examples of them online.

I was going to greet him tonight with my keys, asking him what he saw when he looked at them and seeing if he made the connection to "defensive weapon".

BertieBotts Tue 25-Nov-14 20:37:02

Ooh we had a discussion about the bechdel test before in relation to Doctor who. I might start doing that about everything we watch together, which is not much TBH as we have totally different obsessions tastes. He couldn't get his head around the idea though that it was a general tool to show the lack of inclusion of women characters in general rather than a tool to show whether something is feminist or not. Or maybe he just wanted to watch TV and not think about politics, either way.

WorkingBling Tue 25-Nov-14 20:43:28

What about language examples? When a word is used about a woman that is subtly demeaning and undermining, ask him to imagine that word used to describe a man.

Dh has found this very interesting.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom Tue 25-Nov-14 20:47:20

I was going to say language too- throws like a girl, cries like a girl, etc. It's not 'like a child' is it? Because to be a girl is to be demeaned.

Ditto clothing. Why can girls wear boy clothes and not the other way around? Often it's said that this is an example of female privilege. It's not - it's a bloody disgrace to be seen as a girl is what it is.

JennyOnTheBlocks Tue 25-Nov-14 20:51:41

take him round the children's clothes departments, 'boys' stuff is logoed up with 'adventure' 'fun' and 'mess' whilst 'girl's' is 'pretty' 'delicate' and wholly fucking impractical light coloured

Amethyst24 Tue 25-Nov-14 20:51:55

Language is a good one. "Nag", "hysterical", "strident" etc. Plus the MASSIVE inequalities that exist in terms of housework and childcare - your DH sounds like a good man and a good partner so it may not be true in his case (nothing to do with him having older sisters with their heads screwed on right, of course wink), but maybe he could ask a few male colleagues just how much they do around the home, and how much they expect their wives to do.

scallopsrgreat Tue 25-Nov-14 20:56:03

The whole "smile" thing (when men come up to you and tell you to smile and you promptly want to stick needles in their eyes).

Also things like the age differences between male and female celebrities/presenters.

Blokey who wore the same suit for an entire year as a news presenter and no one noticed.

The fact that a woman is rarely described by what she does, but how she looks or who she is in relation to men/children. And on the back of that 'female <insert appropriate occupation>'.

Diet ads invariably aimed at women.

The phenomena of "mansplaining"!


saintsandpoets Tue 25-Nov-14 20:56:28

YonicScrewdriver Tue 25-Nov-14 21:06:47

Take some sexist phrases and recast them in racist/homophobic/anti-Semitic language - ask him what his knee jerk reaction to each is and ask him why it's not as strong as to sexist language.

I'll give you an example that almost sounds like a compliment: "that woman is as good as any man, if not better"

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom Tue 25-Nov-14 21:12:26

If he is of average build, the whole world is a wee bit more comfortable for him than the average woman - that bar stool, that car, etc. All designed for the male proportions.

noblegiraffe Tue 25-Nov-14 21:16:28 Mitchell and Webb, adverts aimed at women versus men?

Ask him who is running the country! Percentage of female MPs, CEOs etc.

BertieBotts Tue 25-Nov-14 21:18:23

Oh yes to be fair he sometimes comes home open mouthed with tales of how his male colleagues speak about their wives, used to get it much more often when he worked at a cheap no-frills hotel, though, lots of prostitute using businessmen and he was constantly shocked. Now they don't tend to bring their personal life to work so he comes up against it less.

He does pretty much all a lot of housework so no complaints - I did say to him tonight, he is actually the least sexist man I know. And I reckon the sisters did help - I mean being brought up by effectively four women and one man will do that to you grin though MIL is not going to win any feminist prizes any time soon.

Language we've argued about before, because he thinks that certain words aren't gendered/aren't derogatory whereas I know that they are. He won't even bow to my superiority as a language teacher there hmm

Everyday Sexism site is great. Am I remembering wrong or did that start life as a thread on here? Perhaps both ideas just happened at around the same time.

BertieBotts Tue 25-Nov-14 21:21:21

I love that Mitchell and Webb sketch grin

Who is running the country doesn't work, we're in Germany. Nice to be somewhere with a competent head of state, though!

noblegiraffe Tue 25-Nov-14 21:26:51

"Germany was ranked 18th by the Inter-Parliamentary Union of Women (IPUW) 2008 survey with women representing 32.2% of members of the lower house and 21.7% of the Senate, representing a decline on previous years. The current Chancellor, Angela Merkel, elected in 2005 is the first woman to be elected to this post."

That's hardly equality is it? (Don't know if the current figures are any better)

What I remember from Germany is the sheer number of naked breasts plastered everywhere.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom Tue 25-Nov-14 21:27:44

If he marries, he will not automatically have to question (and be judged on) what he does with his surname.

If he is in a relationship at the time he has a baby, he can generally expect that the baby will have his surname.

If he leaves work early to attend parents evening, has a photo on his desk, leaves work early once a week to do early nursery pick up, etc, he is an involved and admired parent. A woman doing similar is often 'not committed'

If his MIL doesn't get a birthday card, he won't be blamed and judged for it. Ditto if the PE kit is forgotten.

BertieBotts Tue 25-Nov-14 21:37:00

Yep there are still boobs everywhere. Bums are more common though at the moment, I reckon, and turn up in really bizarre places. There are three photography shops in this town and inamongst all of the wedding shots, baby photos and family portrait there will just be someone's arse in a thong. We also pass the red light district on the tram into town, complete with strip bars with giant illustrations covering the doors, and there's an advert for the local brothel on some of the trolleys at one of the supermarkets. Weird.

True that the ratios are shit everywhere.

Eeek Tue 25-Nov-14 21:56:25

How about the fact that thanks to unequal pay women effectively work for free from the 7th November?

Think what a difference that makes to a household - you could have fun with an extra 6 weeks pay.

whatdoesittake48 Tue 25-Nov-14 22:46:36

My husband had recently started reversing things to test the sexism. If it wouldn't be acceptable for a woman to say or do something to or about a man it isn't acceptable for a man to do it to a woman. We also use the racism test. It has opened a few eyes in our house.

scallopsrgreat Tue 25-Nov-14 22:49:57

Everyday Sexism site is great. Am I remembering wrong or did that start life as a thread on here? Perhaps both ideas just happened at around the same time.

Laura Bates came on here to announce the site when she first started it. I remember that. And everyone thought it was a great idea then too!

sashh Wed 26-Nov-14 07:58:37

Ask him to find a popular children's book with a female lead, then a TV show and then a film.

There are a few. But would home alone be the same with a girl instead of a boy? What about how to train your dragon? So why is it a boy.

Adverts, what are they saying? Who is making Xmas dinner in them all? Who does he think sent the chocolate to the soldier in the Sainsbury's add - but he thinks it's a female.

Linking to another thread, has he ever been refused contraception of choice because he might change his mind?

Sports, have a look at football, until the FA was formed women's matches got the same crowd as men, then the FA banned them from playing on FA grounds.

What does he have to do to look presentable at work? What do the women have to do? Why?

Oh the old favorite - why do girls have to wear a tie for school uniform?

MN164 Wed 26-Nov-14 10:11:41

As mentioned earlier on the thread.

How about this in the Christmas stocking, if that's your "bag"?

Of even better send him to a lecture by Laura Bates. She's eloquent and passionate without being emotional - very compelling.

Zazzles007 Wed 26-Nov-14 10:24:39

I have been watching news programs, and noting how many stories are devoted to men vs women. Very often there will be more news stories on men than on women. And even if the program is targeted towards women (eg those programs from 9am onwards), there will still be lots of stories devoted to men. Get to sit in front of the telly with pen and paper and make a tally.

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