In light of the recent threads and the perception that some feminists hate men, can anyone confirm that what they really feel about men as a class ? And whether they believe that feminism harms men ?
I see more disrespect for men on the general boards, the 'men just don't see dust', 'I'm as well doing it myself as he makes a mess of it' 'bless them, they just don't get it' 'women are naturally the better parent' types of threads. To be fair, those posts usually attract rightful condemnation but I can't understand why just because feminism demands more of men and expects more of men, feminism is seen as disrespectful or dismissive of men. Surely it's the opposite ?
In the interests of honesty, there are individual men I like, admire, love or respect. There are individual men whom I trust but it has to be said, not unreservedly.
Men, as a class, on the other hand, I fear. I fear the stranger in the dark alley, I fear the man driving the taxi, I fear the men attending conferences with me who decide to retire to their rooms at the same time. Not because I think they are definitely going to harm me but because I equally fear that if someone does harm me, I will be judged for not recognising the danger and protecting myself. This, I blame, not on men but on a patriarchial society that tells me men are predatory and women are victims. I blame it not on men but on a rape culture which reinforces the attitude that women are there for the taking. The only individual men I blame are the ones who rape, kill and assault but I start with the premise that those individual men are not identifiable to me therefore I should be cautious of all. Man hating ? I don't know.
In terms of feminism, I've always been quite comfortable with the idea that whilst not an aim, the accepted by product of feminism will be that men's lives are also enhanced. The prevailing notions that men have to be strong, assertive, to be the bread winner, emotionally detached, not to cry, to be able to physically protect themselves are all damaging to men, particularly those who don't conform to the stereotype. I firmly believe that while feminism seeks to break down barriers, the result of it will be that men also benefit significantly. And I welcome that. If feminism was simply about achieving a position for women that significantly put men in jeopardy, I wouldn't be supportive of it and I don't know many feminists who would.
Given that men who suffer under patriarchy will benefit from feminism, I see no need to actively campaign for men's rights so I'm entirely comfortable with focusing on women. For men who won't benefit, I'm sorry but I just can't shed any tears for someone who has had all the advantages and is now being asked simply to share them.
I've asked, not to be controversial, but because I didn't want to derail any existing threads that are, quite rightly, about putting women first. And I've been genuinely perturbed by the current threads that insist there is a genuine and strong sense of men being hated by some feminists on here. Is it just misunderstanding of language, a lack of understanding of feminism or am I so blinkered by my beliefs that I can't see it ?
Feminism: Sex & gender discussions
Can I talk about men ?
Blistory · 02/11/2014 12:54
This move by MRAs to blame Feminism for every slight injustice to men is what has perpetuated this myth of man hating.
I think that this is a common attitude. However, MRAs are actually a very small contingent within society, albeit a rather noisy one. My personal view is that many feminists have over-played the relevance of MRAs' opinion and used it as an element in their thinking. As an extension of this same process, the feminist response to society can often be based on specific and extreme examples from society, rather than society as a whole. If feminism views men as being represented by the toxic masculinity* it cites as evidence, then it's obvious that society at large may note that, not think of itself in such a specific and abhorrent way and draw certain conclusions. In short, it's not actually MRAs that have spread a myth of man-hating feminists, but rather feminists themselves that concentrate their thinking on hateful aspects of men.
I've totally nicked the phrase now Puffins* 
Oh - and you''ll always see the argument made that feminism can't possibly generate any valid criticism by its own actions, as if it is the most perfect ideology that there ever was. All criticism of feminism is inherently born of privilege, defence, anger, bitterness, misogyny in the person doing the criticizing. 
I'm not sure you're really understanding my point in the context of the question that was asked.
Just as a passing suggestion that you may wish to completely ignore... see how many times FWR posters refer to MRAs as a reference point for what they're saying about men as a class or society as a whole. It's like using the EDL or Britain First to reference the English attitude towards immigration or jihadis to reference Islam; it's not wrong, but it should always come with caveats and an awareness that we're talking about a minority. 'NAMALT' is not actually either of these things. Feminism is looking to have a positive effect upon the whole of society. However, when feminists refer to society, they are often meaning only extreme sections of it: rapists, murderers and misogynist gobshites. It is also interesting that they often exclude themselves (and women generally) from the society they are commenting on.
Of course, as I joked before, NAFALT 
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