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All's well that ends well? ( hopefully)

(33 Posts)
Scarletohello Sat 01-Nov-14 19:51:28

So I started the thread in AIBU about why don't more women come on FWR yesterday. WAs shocked at the responses so started the other thread on FWR to see how we could counter this ( as people were saying it was aggressive, patronising, elitist etc). Felt a bit overwhelmed at the vitriol directed at myself personally and also FWR so I withdrew from the discussion party because I couldn't cope with the personal attacks and also because I didn't want to inflame things further ( and cos I'm a bit of a coward) Although I wasn't posting, I was reading both threads with a mounting sense of horror, especially when I was accused of having brought the FWR board into disrepute and how it would put more women off posting there.

However, it seems like some incredibly useful discussions have resulted as a consequence as well as some great threads on FWR both for newbies and also what's great about FWR ( thanks both to Cailin and Buffy). Seems like it was a discussion waiting to be had as it has ignited great passion on both sides. I'm so relieved about this as I was mortified that something that had started with a genuine curiosity and desire to help seem to have been so badly misconstrued.

So I wanted to apologise to anyone here who was annoyed at me, I still don't understand why it all went so badly wrong, was I 'patronising'? ( certainly wasn't my intention). Any feedback about how I came across would be gratefully received but mainly I'm just hugely relieved that the ensuing debate has brought people over her and that some good has come out of it ( no credit to me, I know).

So thanks to all who have invested their time and energy in defending this board, it's something that's hugely important tome, there are a lot of brilliant, impassioned women here that I learn from every day and am proud to be part of.

grocklebox Sat 01-Nov-14 19:53:37

This is another TAAT.

Scarletohello Sat 01-Nov-14 19:58:23

Fair enough, but there's 5 threads that have come out of the original one so I can't really post on all of them...

( gives up)

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JubJubBirds Sat 01-Nov-14 20:01:41

Scarlet, I'm sure you meant well but what's stopping you from actually going back to the threads you already started and writing this? That way it's all the people who took the time to respond to or watch your thread(s!) will see your message. What's the point in starting yet another thread?

cailindana Sat 01-Nov-14 20:09:35

Scarlet, the response you have had is totally normal and to be expected. When women are confronted with feminism and start to see the truth of how the men around them really see them, their totally understandable reaction is anger, disbelief and defensiveness. They attack the messenger. Your thread fed into that, and gave those posters space to express the fear and upset they feel when approaching feminism, except that they directed that fear towards feminism itself rather than towards the actual culprits.

If people really thought feminism was mean, unaccommodating etc etc, they just wouldn't bother engaging in the first place. The fact that they do engage, and get worked up about it, means the desire is there to be included, but it is held back by the fear of what it means to truly confront the world we live in a realise that, as a woman, every single aspect of your life is constrained, criticised, belittled, devalued and threatened.

It is part of the process. Some women will go through it, have their eyes opened and never go back. Some will reject it. Some will attack it. That's the way it's ever been. But your thread, though it seemed negative, was a positive thing IMO - it got people involved. And that's the essential first step.

grocklebox Sat 01-Nov-14 21:15:14

Wow, you're even more patronising than the OP, cailin. Thats impressive in its own annoying way.

cailindana Sat 01-Nov-14 22:11:24


FrauHelga Sat 01-Nov-14 22:23:38

I agree with JubJub.

Also, Cailin, I don't agree that, as a woman, every single aspect of my life is constrained, criticised, belittled, devalued and threatened. I wonder if you would mind explaining? (Genuine question, not being sarkie, I am wondering if there is something I'm not getting)

hotfuzzra Sat 01-Nov-14 22:26:47

Well I'd never been in FWR before I read your thread on AIBU OP, but I had ventured into some feminism discussions on Chat or AIBU and got shouted down so I never bothered coming here.
As a result of your thread and because I've read all tonight's active AIBU and Chat threads as DH is watching a truly awful film I've ventured here, and so far read three or four interesting threads and think I would be happy to chat here in the future. So you've not turned everyone away!!

RufusTheReindeer Sat 01-Nov-14 22:30:54



cailindana Sat 01-Nov-14 22:38:12

Frau - one of the main premises of feminism is that sexism is present in all aspects of women's lives. Do you believe there are some areas of life where women have the same freedoms, power and respect as men?

MyEmpireOfDirt Sat 01-Nov-14 22:42:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JubJubBirds Sat 01-Nov-14 22:47:20

Calindana and Frau, can we not turn this into yet another thread between those who frequent fwr and those who don't? There are already multiple active threads having that exact discussion.

cailindana Sat 01-Nov-14 22:48:49

Jubjub the internet won't run out of room. Just hide the thread.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JubJubBirds Sat 01-Nov-14 22:55:12

I'm aware of how mn works calindana hmm, no need to be patronising. But as the point of Scarlet's post was to apologise and reflect, and as she's already helpfully started up many different threads for debate and discussion now do you not think that you might be derailling a bit here and that there are more suitable threads to make your points in?

MyEmpireOfDirt Sat 01-Nov-14 22:55:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cailindana Sat 01-Nov-14 22:58:17

No thanks jubjub.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyEmpireOfDirt Sat 01-Nov-14 23:12:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PuffinsAreFicticious Sat 01-Nov-14 23:27:31

Presumably at some point there will be a team of people, with beards of gravitas who will have to go through everything and delete dross? Can they go and delete all the 'That's the kids off to school, now I can get on with the housework' type crap from every social media site ever first? grin

ballsballsballs Sat 01-Nov-14 23:41:27

'Beards of gravitas'. That'll be me in another 30 years.

Damsili Sun 02-Nov-14 00:47:11

So, a general audience on Mumsnet were asked what they thought of Mumsnet. Many people - and this included women that identified as feminists - said they felt it was intimidating and intolerant of diverse opinion.

And the response is to say that those people are wrong can be expected to be defensive and angry when faced with THE TRUTH of the FWR threads.

Just... wow. Do we not feel this is rather arrogant?

PuffinsAreFicticious Sun 02-Nov-14 01:04:36

balls... on a bad day, it's me now grin

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