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Is it just me who feels uncomfortable about this? Jian Ghomeshi

(83 Posts)
ItsAllJollyGoood Mon 27-Oct-14 03:41:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Golferman Mon 27-Oct-14 15:49:12

So, a man publishing such info has to always be incorrect whereas a woman is always telling the truth? I understand this is only one side of the story but you are being disingenuous.

InvaderZim Mon 27-Oct-14 16:04:15

No, you're not the only one who feels uncomfortable, far from it, especially since the Star article came out this morning clarifying the women's position.

I have known of Jian since I followed the band he was in 15+ years ago and and still in the fan community. We are all talking about it, we all feel uncomfortable.

ZombiePuffinsAreREAL Mon 27-Oct-14 16:18:33

No, it's not just you who feels uncomfortable about this.

I don't know who the man is from a hole in the ground, but the 'open letter' he put on Facebook is just weird. I cannot imagine any circumstances in which his lawyers would have thought that was a good idea, so would think that he's done it without their knowledge.

However, 3 seperate women, coming up with very similar accounts of the abuse they allege they suffered at his hands does seem damning.

I think I'll reserve judgement.

scallopsrgreat Mon 27-Oct-14 16:31:41

"So, a man publishing such info has to always be incorrect whereas a woman is always telling the truth? I understand this is only one side of the story but you are being disingenuous." The OP isn't being disingenuous. She is asking whether he is abusing his position in having a greater voice than those who are alleging abuse against him. Just because he has that position doesn't mean he should be believed. And given the fact that 3 women are saying the same thing would certainly lend credence to their side of the story. Unless, of course, you are DLT and then 15 women saying the same thing seems to be irrelevant angry.

So yes OP no wonder it is hard to get convictions.

SolidGoldBrass Mon 27-Oct-14 23:58:11

It seems to be a lot more likely that he's a predatory creep than that this is all down to some bunny boiler who couldn't stand being dumped.
There's a good article here on the subject.

MrsTerrorPratchett Tue 28-Oct-14 01:27:32

He is HUGE here in Canada and is a very big deal at CBC, which is like the BBC here. He has a massive fan base and the typical shit was all over social media that always pokes it's head up when people who seem like-able and 'our sort' are accused of sexual offences.

Separate women are saying he beat them, choked them, sexually harassed them at work. There was also an article about an anonymous radio personality that was published and this caused the author, who never named Ghomeshi, to be abused online.

Even if he is to be believed, what we are left with is a man who uses his fame to proposition women half his age to beat and choke. I don't really know how to think about BDSM in this context. Is it great and empowering for women and men to choose to do whatever they like in bed, or is it deeply disturbing that this 47 year old is FBing 20 year olds to beat up? 20 year olds he knows idolise him.

I will be very interested to see how Canada deals with this.

lemonpoppyseed Tue 28-Oct-14 06:42:35

I'm in Canada too, and listen regularly to his show. I am feeling very uneasy about it. There's so much 'he said/she said'; he has engaged a PR company (who wrote his FB post) ,The Star is usually pretty accurate (they broke the Rob Ford drug story last year), yet no charges have been laid/investigated by Toronto Police. It was certainly the talk of the moms at the park earlier today...

Will be following the story as it develops...

MyEmpireOfDirt Tue 28-Oct-14 06:54:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyEmpireOfDirt Tue 28-Oct-14 06:56:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scallopsrgreat Tue 28-Oct-14 07:27:16

He also thinks "Sexual preferences are a human right." Err no. There are plenty of "sexual preferences" that are illegal, never mind a right. He certainly has a sense of entitlement there, equating what he wants to do to in bed with a right.

I agree with SGB. He has predatory creep written all over him.

zippey Tue 28-Oct-14 07:55:24

I think MN has a "we believe you" campaign still ongoing which doesn't bode well for men who think they have been wronged.

According the campaign we should really believe his accusers, that he has been abusive, this should be the default position.

TunipTheUnconquerable Tue 28-Oct-14 09:21:56

The thing that struck me in his FB post was 'On Thursday I voluntarily showed evidence that everything I have done has been consensual.'
Er, no, the evidence can't have shown that. You might be able to prove that something you did was consensual, but unless you believe consenting to one thing in bed counts as consenting to everything, you can't prove it was all consented to.
Of course, some people do believe that, and oddly enough it's a typical view for abusers to hold....

Moreover, consent can be withdrawn at any time, so even if a woman wrote a signed affidavit in triplicate saying 'I want you to hit me' it doesn't prove that she still wanted you do by the time she actually did it.

So, as far as I'm concerned, his own FB statement demonstrates he doesn't understand consent, and that's a bit worrying for someone who's into BDSM.

SolidGoldBrass Tue 28-Oct-14 09:26:23

Men who think they have been wrongly accused do themselves no favours by encouraging or condoning vicious harassment of their accusers, and no favours at all by whining in public like this. People who are themselves into BDSM are unimpressed by him.
It is statistically far more likely that a man accused of sexual assault is guilty than that the woman is lying. This is true because, actually, most men are not sexual predators. Most men don't stick their dicks into unconscious women, or punch them in the face for refusing sex/a date/a conversation. But the ones who do hate women or consider them nothing more than things to have sex on are always repeat offenders, and quite often (if they are sucessful) very good at picking vulnerable victims and also at presenting themselves as 'good' men who women lie about because they are mad, spiteful, jealous or unattractive.

FloraFox Tue 28-Oct-14 09:41:00

The support he's had from lefty liberals is quite shocking. Oh hang on, no it's not. It doesn't take much peeling back to expose misogyny and male entitlement even among so-called liberals.

Apparently Dan Savage has described this as him being "kink shamed". JFC what next?

I am inclined to believe these women but even if he was telling the truth, he still should be fired. I don't think a man who wants to punch women in the face should be given the platform of a prime slot on a national broadcaster even if he manages to find some woman willing to agree to be punched.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 28-Oct-14 09:42:20

I think the double mentions of the death of his father, his worry about his mother and the fact he is a "good soldier" for his country are nifty inclusions in that pile of ole wank

scallopsrgreat Tue 28-Oct-14 09:45:45

"I don't think a man who wants to punch women in the face should be given the platform of a prime slot on a national broadcaster even if he manages to find some woman willing to agree to be punched." Yy. It's very strange how his "sexual preferences" equals violence against women.

Oh wait...

FloraFox Tue 28-Oct-14 09:56:15

Exactly scallops and he characterises that as his right, his "human right" no less. A human right to beat and choke women?

We are bending over backwards in our collective efforts to be accepting of everything people do sexually for fear of being deemed prudes that a media savvy man advised by a PR firm can write such a thing in his defence. Even worse is that a large number of people are accepting this and defending him.

TunipTheUnconquerable Tue 28-Oct-14 10:01:25

What strikes me about that is, it's not just that he sees it as his human right to do it, but as his human right to do it and not have people dislike him for it.

saintlyjimjams Tue 28-Oct-14 10:13:41

Including his father in it is somewhat contrived.

SGB's link was an interesting one.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 28-Oct-14 11:03:46

It seems it's a Big Fat Fail how he has tried to use the "don't judge me for my kink" angle and attempted to align himself with the BDSM community. I hope right minded BDSM'ers stand up and say "not in our name, nobhead".

SolidGoldBrass Tue 28-Oct-14 19:06:10

BDSMers already are going, no, we are not like him, we don't like him, that's not what it's all about. He's not being 'kink shamed'. He's being accused of sexual assault and rape, and at least one of the accusations doesn't appear to have anything to do with BDSM (a woman said she went to a concert with him and he couldn't keep his hands to himself). Not everyone likes BDSM but the majority of people who are into it are not predators and do care about consent and communication.

KarmaViolet Tue 28-Oct-14 19:21:28

This is a fantastic article on it - and not just on him, but on the numerous other men who ask us to believe ridiculous things when they get accused of sexual assault. I particularly love the one where people believe that unprotected sex in Sweden is illegal - despite the existence of Swedish babies.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 28-Oct-14 19:47:46

if that is the same Kate Harding who blogged about shrodingers rapist she is great

SevenZarkSeven Tue 28-Oct-14 20:05:56

I particularly love the one where people believe that unprotected sex in Sweden is illegal - despite the existence of Swedish babies.

grin that's brilliant!

I don't know who this man is but reading the thread if 3 unconnected women have all independently accused him of the same thing then it's pretty bloody unlikely indeed that he didn't do it.

+ are we to see "Oh but I'm into BDSM" used in lots of VAW cases going forward? And if you don't agree with me you're a prude? I can see that one taking off, sadly.

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