Men have done such a number on us that even women don't even know what rape is

[cailindana]

Now I know Judy Finnegan is not a paragon of intellectual prowess.

But still, I would never have thought such stupidity could fall from her lips: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-29598732

She said the rape was "not violent." So what was it then? Friendly? Enjoyable? Just a little game?

How how how how how do we live in a world where a woman can't recognise the extreme violence of having your body used by another person?

[AskBasil]

Because as you say, men have done a number on us

Judy would not think that a young man who had been lured back to a hotel room and then penetrated while unconscious due to alcohol, was not the victim of violence.

But a man's body, psychology and life is just worth more than that of a teenage girl.

That's the number they've done on us. To make us believe that we're simply not worth as much as men. The attitudes to rape are just a symptom of that wider attitude.

[ApocalypseThen]

Also, I think many women really find it hard to come to terms with the idea that women aren't by default consenting to sex. In the society we live in, it is a mindshift to understand that women aren't actually just there for sex-at-will.

[AskBasil]

Yes because having a little bit of sex you don't want, is so normal.

[AlpacaYourThings]

She said it was 'unpleasant'

What the fuck?!

Walking home in the rain and getting wet is 'unpleasant'

Rape is horrific.

[Moln]

Oh ffs, how do you re-educate people like Judy?

If you asked her what would she think of the situation where a man had an object inserted into him whilst unconscious I doubt she'd see the corrolation.

[alicemalice]

That's a good parallel, Moin.

[PetulaGordino]

yy empireofdirt i think that part of it must be to do with the experiences women have had with the men they are close to (or the reported experiences of other women around them) and it is too horrible to believe those men are bad. they have to live with them

[7Days]

Maybe because to NAMen sex just isn't that big a deal. A few minutes having a bit of sex isn't that significant. Insert observations about objectification (any hole's a goal), biology and lack of empathy here, which I'm too tired to do.
Socialisation, or something else, I don't know.
But that's definitely the message I'm receiving.
And in this culture I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[FreudiansSlipper]

my mum agreed with her

ffs my mum has been in a violent relationship with a man (prison sentence for his violence) that would often rape her I struggle to understand why she still thinks this way :( makes me very sad

We as a society allow men to believe that they have to have sex, it is something that they are unable to go without it is their right is the message that some men seem to choose to go along with

[mimithemindfull]

Well here we go again. I recently posted re STV reporter describing a rape victim as not being physically injured. It seems to be endemic in the media. IMHO people in the media have a responsibility to emphasise the seriousness of this violent act. Or am I expecting too much...

[Callani]

This attitude is so endemic that I was raped and failed to identify it as such for years and I think there are a LOT of girls out there who fall into the same trap.

To me it couldn't have been rape because we'd already been fooling around, I'd willingly taken off my clothes and he hadn't hit me or held me down. It took me a long time to realise the fact that I'd said no and didn't want to have sex with him made it rape. I highly doubt I'm the only one.

[AlpacaYourThings]

Callani, it was a MN poster who told me that my ex had raped me as he had had sex with me whilst I was asleep. I didn't think that was rape i just thought he was strange. It took until last year (8 years after the event) for me to realise that it wasn't ok

[turbonerd]

To recognize unwanted sex as rape is very hard. Because there is always this assumption that Even when someone is hit and tied and otherwise assaulted in addition, she must still have been asking for it. My ex raped me regularly for over å year.No was ignored and he pestered and blackmailed. When others identified this as rape I was shocked.Now I do too though, and I recognise the psychological damage that followed by being used in such a way. But not then, and he does certainly not accept he was sexually violent because he did not beat me or pin me down.
No means no. I also condone the enthusastic consent thing. It is the only way forward.

[cadno]

I also condone the enthusastic consent thing. It is the only way forward

Then mere consensual sex is an offence ?

[AnnieLobeseder]

Well, cadno, if you pester a woman for sex for several hours and she finally spreads her legs for you just to shut you up and get some peace, then technically, you have consent. But she doesn't want to have sex with you, so at the same time, it's rape. Many men, especially younger ones, think that it's okay to pester for sex, and somehow manage to enjoy themselves when wanking into a woman who they know doesn't actually want their penis in her.

So yes, IMO it should be an offensive if consent is not enthusiastic. Men need to be taught that no means no the first time and not to push until they get a reluctant yes.

[cadno]

If

[PetulaGordino]

why would anyone who wasn't a rapist want to have sex that wasn't enthusiastically consensual?

[cadno]

mostly the actions of hormones - I believe.

[PetulaGordino]

please explain more

[turbonerd]

I should hope all consensual sex is enthusiastic, otherwise it is probably not done right.

Not sure why it is hard to understand that clearly the word enthusiastic had to be put in precisely because of the problem of pestering and coercion. The "if you loved me you would do it", "it doesn't hurt, besides I'm nearly finished", "most other women love this, so you must too" etc.
Precisely what I Imagine sparked this thread in the first place. "The rape was not violent" .
It gives me a quiet rage.

[AnnieLobeseder]

So, cadno, you think it's acceptable that a man should coerce an unenthusiastic woman to have sex, because hormones? Does that extend to men "not being able to stop" once sex is underway and a women changes her mind? Which, by law, is also rape.

Do you realise how that thinking reduces men to animals and shows no respect for them as intelligent human beings? Huh, and they say feminists are the man-haters.....