Why does this make me so angry?

[JimmyCorkhill]

Just received a text from our local children's centre advertising a weekend event for Dads and their offspring. They get to build a bug hotel, learn kung fu and eat sausage sandwiches.

Every sodding week I sit on a dusty church hall floor with my DD, playing with ancient toys, doing simple crafts like painting and drawing with chalks. The kids get some fruit and a drink of water whilst we all sing.

Where's my bloody sausage sandwich? Where are my cool activities?

I am mad because I don't get 'bribed' into doing groups with DD, I do them for her and I'm expected to do them for her too. I do them regardless of how dull they can be for me. It isn't about me. I come home dying for a cup of tea because I'm not allowed one there for health and safety reasons.

If I don't do stuff with DD I am at fault. The message I get from the above event is that the activity has to be 'worth' the Dad going to spend time with his children.

So yet again, Dads equal fun and Mums equal the day to day drudgery.

My DH spends lots of time with our DC so I'm not having a rant at men, just at the idea that men 'need' this sort of event to be with their children.

I get that some Dads will benefit from this, and obviously all the children who go will love it. I think if it was offered to ALL parents I wouldn't be bothered at all.

Anyway, rant over. I feel better for getting it down.

[JimmyCorkhill]

Oh crap, I feel really mean now. I'm well aware that this event is for families that need the help and encouragement. Ignore me. Think I need to make my own sausage sandwich and get over myself

[SanityClause]

Oh, I totally get where you're coming from - our society expects so much less of men, in relation to their children.

I mean, if a mother left her children with her partner, she would be absolutely vilified. But men walk out of the family home every day. (And who gets vilified? The "single mother")

If a child is ill, who normally stays at home, and has to miss work? If a mother takes time off to go to a school sports day, it's "oh, not again." If a father does, it's because he's such a good father.

Okay, I've had my rant now, too.

Have some and .

[basgetti]

I agree. When DS was younger the children's centre I attended used to run a Saturday group for Dads and male carers only. What about working Mums who would like the opportunity to attend something like this with their children and don't get a chance during the week? Or even non resident Mums or those sharing care? It used to really irritate me.

[KatherinaMinola]

I agree with everything you say in your OP. DH goes to something like this. There's nothing equivalent for female parents - yy to the secondrate toys / half-arsed activities and no cup of tea!

[JimmyCorkhill]

Oh thank you for all being nice to me! I couldn't decide if I was just jealous and bitter or in the right

I agree that any activity which benefits families should happen. I just wish it was for any parent. My DH does lots with our girls but hates structured group activities. So they won't get to do this. But I would love to do it with them.

I know that I could contact the children's centre and request this. And I know that I could organise it for myself. But I don't want to

[Pootles2010]

Agree entirely Jimmy - our childrens centre is exactly the same. I raised it with them once - 'oh yes, good idea, come along to our planning meeting... on a Tuesday morning'.

[AnyFucker]

I get ya.

[Poofus]

I agree and it annoys me too that it should have to be like this. But you know that if they made it an "any parent" event it would be 75% mothers. And that then the dads would see it was mostly women and not turn up the next month, so it would be 90% mothers.

[Thurlow]

I completely agree. It's operating off a pretty unreasonable assumption that men have to be bribed into taking their kids out to do stuff and rewarded for going out.

(Though my DP is the same - he is at home with DD more than I am but structured groups are not his thing at all)

A while ago I contacted my local SureStart centre to ask if they could advise about maybe getting in contact with other parents who wanted some sort of weekend contact, as I work f/t but my DP works most weekends. I got a "no, the only thing we do at weekends is for dads, bye" and that was it

[TheSameBoat]

YY. And kids with no dad miss out on these opportunities too. Makes me laugh (grimly) that the groups for dads will invariably have some kind of "manly" activity or name.

[KatherinaMinola]

I agree and it annoys me too that it should have to be like this. But you know that if they made it an "any parent" event it would be 75% mothers. And that then the dads would see it was mostly women and not turn up the next month, so it would be 90% mothers.

I have no problem with a dad-only space - I can see that some men will be more comfortable with that. My gripe is that the local SS throws all its resources into making the dad group fantastic - and there's nothing equivalent for women. If there was a women-only group too (of equivalent fab-ness) I would be delighted with it all.

[EElisavetaofBelsornia]

I think you're right OP but just wanted to take up Sanity's point. I think it's actually often easier for mothers to get time off for illness, school play etc than fathers. I have a flexible working pattern and my employers have created a post in their re structure which basically is only there to allow me to carry on having my flexibility. My DH had an arrangement for a year by which he left slightly early two days a week to pick up DC, he works well over the hours anyway and is always willing to do extra to help but it was a massive struggle to get it agreed and every week there was eye rolling and people having a last conversation as he was leaving. We work in the same sector, one which is legally signed up to supporting parents. I don't think this is unusual.

[SevenZarkSeven]

I have very mixed feelings about this also.

Yes encouraging dads to be more involved / breaking down gender roles with this = good.

Expensive fun activities for dads + bog-standard not much going on activities for mums = annoying.

The bit that got my goat was the sausage sandwiches, I must admit.

[SevenZarkSeven]

oh and on sanity's point + EE's point I think it depends heavily on the workplace / culture / team dynamics etc about men/women + time off to do kids stuff.

[glenthebattleostrich]

I raised this when we used to go to the children's centre, apparently it's mad feminists like me who wanted to stop men from being parents.

My response was bollocks, I'm looking forward to a Saturday without a child attached just stop treating men spending time with their kids as something special or at least make me a fooking sandwich.

[BertieBotts]

This is a symptom of patriarchy (and poverty/structural inequality in general) and not a cause of it. (although of course they do perpetuate stereotypes). These kind of schemes are mainly aimed at deprived areas where statistically, the dads are barely involved in their kids' lives at all and if they are often have very little understanding of how to interact with children. If they do attract middle class dads then that's just another bit of evidence that they are really failing to attract their target market - which ultimately is trying to do good things.

It's tough. And I have my own suspicions about how helpful it is to try to cajole uninterested and often chaotic fathers to be interested in their children, but some of the pattern will be because their own fathers weren't involved with them and hence it doesn't really occur to them.

I was told at antenatal classes that a father who bathes with his newborn child is a number of times (I forget the number) more likely to be involved in his child's life at six years of age. (I dutifully insisted that XP bath with DS, he turns six in a couple of weeks and hasn't seen his dad since he was two.) I suppose it makes sense that if a man has an opportunity to bond and spend positive time with his child he is more likely to feel more emotionally invested in that child and hence try harder to be a positive role model for them - and certain men may never think to or put the effort into creating these bonding time and experiences with their children for themselves, hence it's extremely kind of such organisations (which are usually, of course, staffed almost entirely by women) to put so much effort into this. I don't think it is their responsibility. I'm not sure, TBH, why funding is allocated to this (which surely has ridiculously low rates of actual success) whereas it is not allocated to other services such as DV shelters or better mental health services.

[PistolWhipped]

I totes agree. It's like when they send them teens to Barbados when they've committed a crime

[FuckOffWeasel]

Yanbu!

I hate this as well, and it's annoying as well because why do we segregate parents by gender anyway can we not all hang out??

I am on a sling forum on FB. Women keep posting pics of their husbands and they get hundreds of likes and loads of compliments about how great it his he "wears the baby", just for doing the exact same thing the women are doing. they aren't even on the page.. why post a pic of your husband complimenting him for being a parent.
It's patronising as fuck to men too, so I wonder if they get annoyed by it. You're being a parent, here have a cookie.

[Bakeoffcakes]

I'd ask the centre when are the mums going to get to do an exciting activity and a sausage sandwich. Seriously, ask them , don't let them get away with this crap.

[velveteenbunny]

I agree,

and I would also like a sausage sandwich.

[buwegevove]

but what about the feministz?

[PistolWhipped]

New mums won't eat sausage butties coz they iz on diets since the birf, innit. Also, women are happy to just sit around talking about George Clooney's new missus.

[CaptChaos]

It does look like the venue is trying to make being an active father who spends time with his children into 'An Event' which is surely not what we should be saying? Or at least we shouldn't be saying that it is the case, but being an active mother should be a bit crap really?