Reasons to get a PhD

[kickassangel]

I'm spending the morning in the college library doing research for my MA, hence being all over MN today.

Anyway, vaguely at the back of my mind is an idea for a PhD. I don't really have the time or money to do one, and not sure if I have the brains either.
BUT there are reasons to do one:
There's a topic I'm interested in and there doesn't seem to be much written about it.
I'd like to do the research on the topic.
I enjoy college and learning
It would annoy the hell out of my family if I got a Phd.

BUT

here's the clincher: A woman with a PhD is equal to a man without one.
It seems to me that many women get elevated to 'worth listening to' if they have a PhD, to the point that they're treated with the same respect as men.

Or am I talking bollocks?

[weatherall]

Where is that quote from?

It wouldn't surprise me in terms of things like women experts being asked to contribute to debates.

But academia is, from a research book I remember one of the top 3 worst industries for women to work in.

[FidelineAndBombazine]

I'm not sure about that but being able to use 'Dr' is handy sometimes.

[TeaAddict235]

^^ this and more

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I think a large proportion of the people who treat women as less worth listening to that men wouldn't change their attitude if they learned the woman had a PhD, to be honest. A few might - you get snobs anywhere. But most of them wouldn't.

[Booboostoo]

I did a PhD for career reasons (I wanted an academic career and in my field you don't have a hope in hell of an appointment without a PhD. It made no difference to whether people listen to me or not ( they do not!) and infuriatingly everyone calls DP Dr and me Mrs (instead of Mr and Dr if they want to use titles).

[TheWanderingUterus]

I have been treated with more respect since I started my PhD but I don't know how much of that is my increased confidence in myself.
Mind you, I don't tend to tell people exactly what I am researching because it is something unusual, female-centric and somewhat taboo.

I'd say you have lots of good reasons to do a PhD, it IS hard though, you really do have to want it.

My supervisor says regularly that you don't need brains to do a PhD (well a little bit, but it's not the most important) you just need to be bloody minded, stubborn and determined.

[ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy]

Is your PhD about roaming wombs, WanderingUterus?



Good luck if you decide to go ahead! But aren't you in a place where PhDs take even longer than the Uk, or am I mixed up?

[FidelineAndBombazine]

Is your PhD about roaming wombs, WanderingUterus?

You're getting hysterical Bland (ba-dom-tish)

[ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy]

[Parietal]

don't do a PhD just because you think it would be nice, or if you aren't sure. Of people who start a PhD (in the UK, all subjects) only the top 5% get a permanent job in academia at the end, maybe after a few more years of postdoc. many others in science will get a science-related job. In arts, the situation is much much harder - there is very little funding during the PhD and very few jobs at the end.

so do it if you are passionate about your topic and have a funding lined up and a fabulous, supportive supervisor. but don't do it just because it seems nice or because you don't have anything else to do or to get respect.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I expect I'm wrong to do this, but I would qualify that a little, parietal.

I started my PhD because I was not very employable, and I thought it would be nice, and I couldn't think what else to do.

Or, that was what I thought I thought. Actually, looking back, I absolutely loved what I was doing, I was fascinated and I really, really, really wanted to do something I was quite good at. But women are not socialised to realize those things. I think that's generally true - it's certainly true of me. I spent ages feeling almost scared to say 'well, I want to do a PhD because I think I'm kind of good at it'.

Of course, it may very well be that this proves I'm not suited to academia really, and that I won't be part of that 5%. But I don't know that that is the worst thing in the world. I think women are inclined to play safe. I guess what I'm saying is, if you think you want to do anything, and you find yourself listing reasons that don't include 'because I think I might be good at it,' it's worth second-guessing yourself and asking if maybe you do think you'd be good.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

NB: I do see the irony of making this argument and starting with 'I expect I'm wrong ...'.

[Parietal]

Hi LRD - thanks for replying. In the UK, if you can get funding & you enjoy it, then 3 years out of your life to do a PhD is fine even if it doesn't work out.

In other countries (not sure where the OP is based but got the impression of not UK), PhDs can take at least 5 yrs and up to 10 in some fields, with little pay and even worse job prospects at the end. this is especially true in the USA. So I always think it is important for prospective students to know the downsides and be sure they want to take the risk. Google things like 'why I left academia' for examples.

OP - if after hearing all the bad things about low success rates and dismal pay, you still love your subject and really want to study it for a long time, then do go for it. But I have seen people drift into a PhD and end up impoverished and unhappy for many years - that isn't good.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Ah, sorry, I didn't think beyond the UK.

I think even in the UK, though, you'd be risky to do it without funding. My point was just that so many women seem to find it hard say they actually think they might be good - so someone not finding other justifications might not be reason to think they shouldn't do it.

[unlucky83]

I have a science Phd ... it was hard work but I loved it . I really love scientific research...I find it interesting and exciting...I was a mature student.
It was/is also very competitive and I had a baby and a partner working 90hrs per week... I couldn't compete....
Eg Some days I picked DD1 up from Nursery at 6pm, fed her, got her to bed etc, did some reading and when DP came home at midnight I went back to the lab. Quite a few times there were other Phd students - my peer group - still there - they had eaten dinner there..
After my Phd I had a wee break then had DD2 - I couldn't carry on balancing so many things with two DCs.
Now I am more or less unemployable. I can't get a job as a technician because I am over qualified. I can't get a job as a post doc because there are too many newly qualified, up to speed Phd students with no other responsibilities who can commit 110% .
And anyway after a few Post doc positions (9 yrs) unless you become a group leader and get your own funding/grants you are unemployable anyway -as you go up the grades you become too expensive.
And in my area - near three universities - there are a lot of other women in the same position as me (and a few men who reached the end of the 9 yr postdoc have moved into teaching etc)...
I don't really use my title - it is on my driving licence and passport but not my bank accounts. It was on a business bank account. It is now on all my shares (long story but using for some and not others caused problems)
If you use your title people do treat you differently - but I don't like it really - I think it is so fake....lots of egs but a good one when I was having a problem with a website login thing - guy was a patronising idiot - until he asked for my details - his attitude changed immediately. Instead of being pleased it made me - I felt like swearing at him for being so judgmental ...

[TheWanderingUterus]

Abland- not hysteria no. I just liked the idea of a uterus strapping on its walking boots and going for a ramble around the body, sending postcards back to the ovaries.

And what unlucky83 says about science PhDs (DH Professor in a science). There does seem to be more money floating around than in the humanities, but it has been my experience that it is a particularly family unfriendly job. China is a booming market, two of DHs ex-Postgrad students live and work there now, but there are obvious negatives - bubonic plague for one at the moment .

[kickassangel]

Ok. I am in the US and expect that I would have to self fund a PhD. It will probably take nearly 2 years from now to finish my MA. I find the level of work relatively easy although time is an issue. With my MA I find that each course seems to skim the surface and just as I get to grips with a topic I'm done, so I would like to do something more in depth.

The thing I want to research I am very interested in and I would like to know that I am doing it properly with supervision so hence a PhD rather than a mad woman muttering away about her theory.

I have a ft job and not looking to move into academia, I just fancy being a doctor. It would make my job slightly more secure.

And it's me thinking that I would get more respect, based on the scientific research of living my own life I find that teaching is just academic enough that having the prefix Dr would help a little and I suspect my voice would gain agency with certain peers.

[Parietal]

I'm afraid I would never recommend anyone to self fund a phd - I've never seen that work out well & have seen several miserable failures. If a project is worth doing, someone will fund it. Otherwise you are just working for free.

[slug]

I've just been told that my work will fund the PhD I want to do. I will be studying part time while working full time though I work in a university (though not an academic) and my subject aligned more or less completely with my job.

My boss was very funny on the subject when I raised it with her. She says she rarely uses the title Dr unless she is dealing with sexist pricks at which point it's very useful for shutting them up. My area is very male dominated and a PhD, even one in progress, makes me stand out in the job market.

[kickassangel]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't use the title in everyday life, but it would be fun to have it when needed. I do like the idea of doing the actual work, I think. My work would probably give me some money towards it as they have a good budget for training and they contribute to the MA. It's a private school so having a doctor on the faculty is a selling point to parents.

I'm assuming it will take forever to do part time. This will be a life style choice. Obviously I will have to see how my final project for my MA goes a an indicator of whether I can cope with a bug write up!

And I bet my mum will still address letters to Mr and Dr, not Dr and Mr. Heck, I could be ruler of the universe and she'd still put DH first.

[Picklepest]

You see that's just plain weird. I was worth listening to before I had gcses let alone my degree.

Why would you think anything less of yourself? It's perception, mostly of your own self rather than a social observation.

[unlucky83]

Thing is if you use your title to prove a point you come across as a prick....
My DP got a letter of complaint at his restaurant from a Dr...long story but something had gone wrong it had been remedied at the time. This letter was very much trying it on - threatening etc...and the use of Dr actually made us less likely to view it as anything but graspy...
I said I don't use it and in general don't care about things like titles etc...
But once on a phone call (when I was in a bad mood) filling in a form someone called me 'Mrs' Unlucky - I'm not married (do have DCs) corrected them to my generally used 'Ms' and they said oh you mean Miss. I said well actually no if you want to get right you can use my actual title - Dr... Didn't make feel good about myself ....
Also I think you should judge people on their actions - not their appearance or their sex or their name or their skin colour or their title...
Wanting to do a Phd just get the title I think is wrong ...feeds into the prejudice - they will only listen to me/take me seriously if I have the title ...