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It was suggested I post here.

(20 Posts)
Imsuchamess Sun 08-Jun-14 14:06:09

I posted a thread in relationships and someone suggested I post it here. So I am linking thread

StillFrigginRexManningDay Sun 08-Jun-14 14:17:03

It was me who suggested you post here because we really need to start stamping out the victim blaming and I was so shocked to see it go unchallenged on MN of all places. The women here are amazing and will be able to empower you just through their words much more than I ever could.

Imsuchamess Sun 08-Jun-14 14:26:04

Thank you.

CaptChaos Sun 08-Jun-14 14:33:30

Have posted on the other thread as well.

None of what happened was your fault.

The way the 2 men behaved was completely unacceptable.

The people victim blaming on that thread should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Imsuchamess Sun 08-Jun-14 14:48:41

Thank you captchaos. I half expected to be asked what I was wearing!

StillFrigginRexManningDay Sun 08-Jun-14 15:23:19

You have the right to wear as much or as little as you want. Clothes do not an abuser make.

Dragonlette Sun 08-Jun-14 15:35:07

That's a horrible thing to have happened on a night out, and yes the victim blaming on the other thread is awful to read.

I would now have the confidence to say something at the time and make a fuss BUT even 5 years ago I don't think I would have done, because "nice girls" don't cause a scene (I no longer care about being a "nice girl" but I'm 35 and getting to be quite bolshy).

I think I would probably speak to your friend this week and let her know how her husband was behaving, then I wouldn't be around either of those men at all, particularly when there's going to be drink involved.

AnnieLobeseder Sun 08-Jun-14 15:36:19

Sadly, as others said on the previous thread, you need to gain a level of self-confidence to fight back against this type of behaviour that can take a couple of decades to develop. Those men were both utter arses, and it was incredibly bad luck that you ran into two in one night. Cutting contact is your best bet at this stage. I'm so angry on your behalf that these two entitled wankstains ruined your night out with their belief that you were obliged to swoon at their inept attentions and their complete failure to take "no" as an answer.

AnnieLobeseder Sun 08-Jun-14 15:41:51

I would add a suggestion that when discussing the incident with either of the men or your friend, use the term "continued sexual harassment". Don't use nicey-nicey terms like "unwanted attention" or anything like that. Call it what it is.

Sadly, you do need to tell your friend. She may well believe her partner over you. There's nothing you can do about that. This may damage your relationship. But please know that this is caused entirely by her wankstain partner, not you. Someday, hopefully soon, she will see him for who he is and be grateful to you for the early warning.

AskBasil Sun 08-Jun-14 16:16:27

It's so difficult isn't it, to know what to do about these predatory men who come on to you and knowing that if you do mention it, it could ruin a friendship with a female friend.

Whatever happens though, it's not your fault, it's their's. And if you do lose a friendship over it, that friendship probably wasn't worth having.

Imsuchamess Sun 08-Jun-14 16:27:13

Thanks all I am going to tell my friend I'm just waiting for her partner to go to work so I can sit down and tell her quietly on her own. Obviously I have no intention of seeing either man again.

JustTheRightBullets Sun 08-Jun-14 19:48:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LoveSardines Sun 08-Jun-14 20:37:40

Men can be such fucking pigs.

I am so sorry they did that, the cab journey sounds horrendous.

FWIW I totally agree with everyone else that telling women & girls that they should be acting in order to stop / call out this behaviour is fucking outrageous.

If someone feels confident enough and comfortable in the situation and not concerned about a physical retaliation and they feel up to saying /doing something etc then great.

If someone does not feel up to that then that is fine and actually not all that fucking surprising given that many females are conditioned to be passive with this stuff, society often takes the "why are you making a fuss just laugh it off" approach, and girls and women who do stand up to it are often met with aggression / physical violence.

So fuck them quite frankly.

I hope that you are OK.

OutsSelf Sun 08-Jun-14 20:55:55

God, what awful men.

Some fucking outrageous responses on this thread, too.

No aspect of the OP' s behaviour could have stopped these two rapey, entitled fuckwits being rapey, entitled fuckwits. I agree with Basil.

I also think that placing the onus on women to take responsibility for not getting raped is not at all about living in the real world, where most women are raped.and sexually assaulted by people who know her and believe her consent to be unimportant; that if she wasn't up for sex, she wouldn't be out in a public space where alcohol is being consumed; that she must be up for it if she's dressed nicely; and that her politeness is solicitous and indicates that she's not really committed to her own if she doesn't take actions that perform her not "taking risk".

People who put conditions on women's safety which make the woman responsible for acting, dressing and appearing in certain ways or places are part of the problem.

OutsSelf Sun 08-Jun-14 21:03:31

ARSE, posted ont wrong thread. Sorry, might try again.

What Annie said, about "continued sexual harassment". And I do hope.your mate can hear what you have to say about this, I'm pretty sure all of mine would. Maybe when I was at uni some of them would have been a bit more invested in patriarchy and struggled a bit. I think Annie's advice about being clear and not fucking around about unwanted attention would work here, too.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Sun 08-Jun-14 22:23:58

Hi OP, I had a quick scan of that other thread. Interesting and disturbing how quickly some of the posters immediately focussed on your behaviour, and not that of the men. Unfortunately, some of the responses you got there are representative of the way a lot of 'society' thinks, in that a woman is responsible for stopping men sexually assaulting her. (why didn't you scream and make a fuss? Why did you get in a taxi? and so on hmm ) This is the reason that rape convictions are shamefully low, and even more sadly, the reason that so many men feel free to carry on behaving in this way.

It was not, in any way, your fault. A simple 'no' should be enough, and your behaviour shouldn't be under scrutiny here. I'm quite ashamed by those victim-blaming MNetters (not for the first time).

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Sun 08-Jun-14 22:24:50

Oh, and awesome work by AskBasil, and others, on that other thread.

Imsuchamess Sun 08-Jun-14 22:56:00

Thank you I'm feeling a lot better now. I feel mostly angry at the position I feel I was put in by the pair of them.

AnnieLobeseder Sun 08-Jun-14 23:02:36

Good. Anger is exactly the right response!

rootypig Sun 08-Jun-14 23:04:37

What a disgraceful thread, OP, the one you linked to. I am utterly appalled. sad

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