Porn in PIL's loo(60 Posts)
A bit of advice from the clever people here would be appreciated:
FIL is a kind and lovely man and I'm very fond of him but he's the kind of person who says "political correctness gone mad" etc and his attitudes are quite old fashioned at times.
MIL bought him a large picture of a woman wearing nothing but knickers and boots at some point in the 1970s/80s as a 'joke'. It is not arty, just porny. It hangs proudly in the loo. DH is embarrassed by this but grew up with it. I've always thought it was odd but not thought to challenge it.
Now we've got children I feel differently about it. I feel like having it there is sending a message about women that I don't want my children to accept.
Do I ask them to take it down? (Been there so long I think it could cause family tension) do I just bring it up and discuss with DC when they are bigger that this isn't a nice way to treat women and grandad was brought up in a time when this was ok even though we all know it isn't now (much in the way that racist old people were sort of tolerated when I was little)
I just feel that having this in their home normalises objectification of women more than coming across the image in a magazine etc would.
Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks
Would you be making the same argument in the same scornful, nasty tone if there were racist or homophobic imagery around the OP's PIL's home?
That someone's "self-righteous whining is more important than other people's feelings"?
It's not just about nakedness. There is context.
In fact I revise my last sentence. It's not about nakedness at all. It's about how women are perceived and the OP's desire not to reinforce this to her dc in the home of close family members, people to whom the OP would expect her dc to show respect.
I think this way.
The grandad might not have given it any thought in years and doesn't realise he could be causing offence or distress.
If his son asks (nicely) for him to take it down because of all the reasons given... he may be happy to do so.
It might never become a big issue (hopefully).
Lets face it - if has been on the wall that long it really is time to go. And perhaps you could offer to find a nice replacement?
Buffy said this: 'It's not about nakedness at all. It's about how women are perceived and the OP's desire not to reinforce this to her dc in the home of close family members, people to whom the OP would expect her dc to show respect.'
I agree completely. I wouldn't be saying 'ooh, I'm a bit PCGM', I wouldn't be saying I had a 'problem' or a 'difficulty.' You aren't precious or whiny. If someone had a racist poster up, and had done for years, you wouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt, you would know that you wouldn't want your kids to find racism normalised. No difference here.
I thought you were going to say your Fil had a stash of porno mags next to the loo
It wouldn't really bother me, I have a fair bit of naked (but not pornographic!) art around the house, kids don't bat an eye.
self-righteous whining is more important than other people's feelings and that being offended justifies anything and everything
Why is it always about the feelings of the person in the wrong?
What about the op's feelings of objectification? Of her worries about her children seeing these sort of things and feeling bad about themselves?
Why is obnoxious "pc gone mad" whining acceptable? Why are we so concerned about their feelings?
It's their house, this was a gift bought for him in an age when such things were more acceptable socially. View this poster in the same way as outdated racist views- as a time warp. Unless you also think they should remove their portuguese painted hens and cork floor tiles. Bottom line (pun intended) is it's not your house.
It's not about whining, obnoxious or otherwise. At root, it's a clash of values. And it's not about territory, because it's PIL's home and OP's children. They can choose to keep their sexist poster, she and her DH can choose to explain why Nanny and Grandad are sexist to their DC.
What's wrong with dialogue and an attempt at mutual accommodation? Why do battle lines need to be drawn?
Peace out Man.
SGB - it doesn't sound like it will trigger a full-scale row if she says "This makes me uncomfortable, would you be prepared to change it?" Most of us say things like that to our friends and relatives now and then, and it doesn't turn into WW3.
I agree nobody should "whine" about other people's choices. But there's nothing wrong in politely challenging something which has probably become so 'ordinary' to them that they don't even think about it.
There is something wrong with thinking you can lay down the law to other people about what pictures they have on their walls in their own homes, and stamp your feet and threaten not to let them see their grandchildren if they don't obey you.
But there's nothing wrong with making a polite request, explaining the problem and asking nicely for a mutually agreeable solution, is there?
If the PIL say fuck off, we'll be sexist if we want, it's our house; then comes the difficult dilemma of how to proceed.
Surely this is one for your dh to tackle with his parents, what does he think?
It's their home and it's not illegal. I think it would be rude to ask them to take it down. Just tell your kids something age appropriate.
SGB - The OP hasn't said anything remotely like that. Some other posters are getting a bit ahead of themselves, and seeing massive ructions where they don't exist. And the suggestions to stick things over the picture when they visit are too PA for words.
But all the OP has said is that she'll get her DH to mention it and see if they would mind removing it. She isn't stamping, whining, or threatening.
Do you really never politely mention things about other people's houses that you find objectionable on feminist principles?
If the FIL was bossing his wife around the house and expecting her to pick up after him in front of the DC, I'm sure you'd have a thing or two to say about it, SGB.
But because this particular gripe is about nudity, you're in a bizarre rush not to be 'mundane'.
We had a massive print of Michaelangelo's David on the inside door of the downstairs loo in the early 80s. No big deal to us, though our friends thought it was hilarious.
The distinction between art, and soft porn that objectifies, is not so nuanced that people seemingly cannot see the difference, is it?!
Bottom line, DH politely requests that they take it down, and if they say no, so be it. The fact remains though, that eventually children grow up and see things with adult understanding. It's interesting that the OP's DH is embarrassed by it, and sees is own Dad as a bit of a dinosaur. PILs run the risk of the same impression being formed in the minds of their grandkids. But that's their choice, of course.
No one is stamping feet or being demanding. The OP is asking for considered thoughts about something she and her DH feel uncomfortable about.
Presumably, DH will ask his parents if they would mind taking the picture down, explaining that he feels uncomfortable about it being there and that his DCs are going to grow up with enough over sexualised images of women and girls everywhere without one hanging in their DGP's loo.
They will either take it down or not.
Then OP and her DH have to decide how to proceed from there, either by only seeing DGPs at their home, or swallowing their discomfort and continuing to visit them, but somehow explain to their DCs that, although DGF is likes a bit of sexist imagery, he's a great bloke really.
Whether the picture comes down is the PiLs choice, how they react to that choice is the OP and her DHs.
LOL SGB you're the only one stamping your feet around here. The OP has asked for calm and reasonable suggestions about how to approach a problem, she hasn't whined or stamped her feet, but goodness, you sound like you are doing so.
I'd let your DH tackle them OP. It's his parents, he can tell them why he's uncomfortable with their sexist imagery.
We all have the right not to take our kids to houses we don't like for any reason at all. And everyone has the right to decorate their house in any way they choose, including ways which may lead to people being unwilling to visit them.
I wonder if there would be this angst if it was some other kind of imagery. A big Nazi flag maybe? Or something hyperviolent?
As Basil says, we can choose where we want to go, just as others can choose what values they want to display. They don't always have to match up.
Not sure what's annoyed you so much solidgoldbrass. I just don't feel hugely comfortable with the messages that page 3 style images send to young girls and think that is all the more difficult to explain when it's seen at Granny and Grandad's house.
I've got no problem with nakedness at all and I've acknowledged that it's their house and I can't tell them what to do. This poster isn't art, it's soft porn.
Not whining or shitting my pants over anything. Just canvassing opinion. Thanks for yours
Not often, every couple of months or so. They aren't local so we usually stay there.
It's not a huge big deal for me to be honest, just something that doesn't sit well with me and I've been thinking about a bit recently.
DH is completely on side. He's happy to say something.
Don't worry - we, for the most part, get it.
I think if the PIL were into extreme right wing politics, there might be far fewer visits to the grandparents... Certainly would be in this house
I remember viewing a flat years ago and there was picture of Hitler in the loo. Now that would be an issue for me.
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