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Feminist pub VI

(1000 Posts)

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SinisterSal Wed 19-Mar-14 21:34:53

<sups pint>

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 19-Mar-14 21:37:06

Oh no, double pub creation!!!

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 19-Mar-14 21:38:38

You beat me by two minutes so I shall withdraw mine grin

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 19-Mar-14 21:40:38

My post:

I just stopped short of recommending The Sainted Cordelia to someone at a work event tonight - and only because I was interrupted!

bonesarecoralmade Wed 19-Mar-14 21:44:42

just nicking a nice bench by the window, don't mind me

PenguinsEatSpinach Wed 19-Mar-14 21:45:31

I love Cordelia Fine. Possibly a little too much.

<marks place>

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Wed 19-Mar-14 22:01:07

brew for me tonight.

<fluffs cushions in the brand new pub>

<settles down>

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AntiJamDidi Wed 19-Mar-14 22:07:16

Just marking my place. I love a comfy sofa with a diet coke.

You lot had a really interesting discussion yesterday and I missed it because I was busy doing real life things sad I love a good discussion about maths and science but I was too late to contribute because I don't have time to post on here while I'm at work.

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PenguinsEatSpinach Wed 19-Mar-14 22:16:44

I am interested Buffy. smile

PenguinsEatSpinach Wed 19-Mar-14 22:17:32

As long as the pub still has hot and cold running 24 hour childcare, I don't care what it looks like grin

AntiJamDidi Wed 19-Mar-14 22:17:54

I square rooted loads of negative numbers in my degree but I can't remember any practical applications of that knowledge. It was all really interesting but incredibly theoretical, which is probably what you'd expect from a maths degree. I always assume that the only people who actually use this sort of thing are doing something very academic but theoretical. Practical people tend to have more real world problems to solve.

AntiJamDidi Wed 19-Mar-14 22:18:52

And yes i'm interested in research ethics.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 19-Mar-14 22:24:14

Don't we need i for radar so that we can fail to track down missing planes?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 19-Mar-14 22:24:46

Also up for research ethics.

AntiJamDidi Wed 19-Mar-14 22:29:03

Quite possibly, I've never looked into how radar works. I wish I knew more about how other people use the maths I've learnt, but I barely have time to do everything I need to do for work/family without adding extra learning stuff into the mix.

stingaling Wed 19-Mar-14 23:46:10

A pub where people talk about square rooting negative numbers, my kind of place :-) just a shame having kids made me forget all the maths I used to know so I can't remember any examples of why its useful :-(

vesuvia Thu 20-Mar-14 01:52:19

Practical applications of square roots of negative numbers include the creation of jpg digital images and mp3 sound files. They are also give engineers a better understanding of how electrical currents work.

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Woodhead Thu 20-Mar-14 10:06:18

On informed consent, the participant surely doesn't lose any ownership of their own story, just because it also forms part of a research data set do they? What I mean is, (say) you publish and sign copyright of a study to a specific journal, that doesn't mean that an individual participant cannot retell that same story to another researcher, or a media reporter etc?

So in improving informed consent, what (specifically) is the participant losing a right to by being involved in the study. (Clearly they agree to some sort of disclosure of data etc).

On complex numbers, conceptually extend your number "line" to 2D space where the roots of negative numbers are represented on a line perpendicular to the real number line. (If you have x-y axes, then real numbers are represented on the x-axis and imaginary numbers on the y-axis). In functional terms-you sq-root a negative number, by sq-rooting the +ve part and multiplying the answer by i, which stands for the root of -1.

Quaternians (thanks for intel LC and Errol) have applications, I was forgetting about 3D rotation apps.
Anyone know a real world application of a Reimmann surface?

bonesarecoralmade Thu 20-Mar-14 10:12:35

Hi all

Thank you for all the cool stuff about numbers. I don't suppose it is remotely possible to explain how they do those things, vesuvia? To an idiot like me?

That is a very interesting question, Buffy.
Will the subjects be anonymous?

I have to confess that my default tends rather crudely to a sense of "harm" (it only matters if there is harm to a person) and I think this is not really enough. My dp was upset once to find that I had written not-complimentary things about him on here under a very opaque name change. I argued it didn't matter as neither of us were remotely identifiable. He said that was not the point.

I wonder if this is analogous to my feeling that dead bodies don't matter - I am tempted to say I would like to see organ donation becoming opt-out rather than opt-in for instance - on the basis that the dead person won't be harmed. But I know on an emotional level, if it were my child, I would need to feel that I had been asked and had consented. (I think it is different for a child though - as a capable adult performs their own consent but a child's consent comes from the parents - somehow in this case that feels like the child's body is still somehow mine whereas the adult owns his own body and the relevant adult is now dead - some people may feel differently about their spouses though? - but I don't see next of kin for an adult being equivalent in bodily terms to being parent of a child - their bodies were once part of mine)

But in the case of the HeLa thing, you can see how the lack of harm to the relevant woman does not remotely sum the case up, especially in the context of the racial politics.

I think the crux of what you are getting at Buffy is in what you mean by "ownership". Do you mean they can control, in perpetuity, how this information is used and must actively consent each time? Is it to do with IP and profit?

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Woodhead Thu 20-Mar-14 10:38:30

OK, so if you don't "do it well" they're at the same risk as someone who gives a newspaper interview and finds their story skewed and misrepresented (as a worst case scenario). The premise of some short text that could be approved is good. When I've been a participant, I've generally been sent a transcript to agree that it's a fair record, but I can see your concerns go several steps beyond that to allow some sort of sanction or veto over the final output.

Is this a changing culture issue rather than a regulation issue (so not about giving ethics committees more steps to monitor). I can't see a process solution that wouldn't have huge resource issues (so personal interview with every participant pre-publication to discuss if they're happy with the representation).

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