Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

400,000 sex workers in Germany. It's doubled since the law was introduced.

[InPursuitOfOblivion]

By super brothels do you mean large or good?

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Large ones - apparently there's more brothels just near the borders. 80 women per night.

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Interesting debate afterwards. Choice of women to enter prostution to criminalising the buyer.

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

And does criminalising the buyer reduce trafficking? Which is seems to have done.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

Yes, criminalising the buyer reduces both trafficking and use of prostitutes.

[InPursuitOfOblivion]

Can you get it on catchup/on demand? Sounds interesting but was past my bedtime!

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

I presume so.

They had a well known sex worker who is part of the sex workers union. The debate got quite heated.

[VivianStanshall]

(bloke speaking)

I have the same view on prostitution as I do on the drugs trade.

I don't like that either of them exists but they do and they always will despite the government's best efforts.

By criminalising them you push the prostitute / drug user into criminality and make them vulnerable to exploitation or even death.

So legalise and regulate them both. And the government can tax them to keep it happy.

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

About 20 minutes in

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03w7wd2/Newsnight_20_02_2014/

[CaptChaos]

Human speaking.

The Nordic Model, which only criminalises the users of prostituted women and people who make money from prostituted women, protects those women. Decriminalisation protects no one.

[VivianStanshall]

I don't see how it protects prostitutes Human (why "prostituted women"?, this suggests they are all controlled by pimps) if the men who use them are criminalised because then they will continue to liaise in the same rough uncontrolled areas that they do now.

[InPursuitOfOblivion]

Thanks itshardthinking

[GarlicLeGrenouille]

comparing the institution of prostitution with that of illegal drugs ... heroin isn't a human being with feelings. Whereas the women traded for sex…

This is one big thing that Mumsnet FWR helped me clarify. It seems so obvious now!

"Would you like to work as a spunk receptacle?"
Well, no, it's not 'like labouring on a building site' or 'being a performance artist' is it? I've seen both similes used in good faith. The only remotely comparable trades are organ donation and surrogacy - and, perhaps, being a drugs mule. None of those involve the sheer repetition, or the show of intimacy, required by prostitution. But they are illegal.

[VivianStanshall]

I think legalising it and controlling will put an end to the steady stream of murdered prostitutes that happen because the illegality of prostitution means the women have to put themsleves at risk.

The same as I think legalising and controlling drugs will stop rogue batches and drug-related crime.

I am not saying that prostitution and illegal drugs are equivalent (though if you really wanted to you could possibly read that into my last post) but that a similar solution works for both and if prostitution continues to be illegal in this country then more women will get murdered.

[migsy86]

Im a prostitute and selling sex isn't illegal in this country. I also don't want my clients criminalised.

I am a full human and would like the right to allow men to use me for sexual services.

All aspects of prostitution should be legal, i.e working together ect.

[migsy86]

I'm ok Buffy. Thanks for asking x

[VivianStanshall]

Fair enough Buffy, I see you could have read my post in that way although (as I've clarified) that was not my meaning.

I don't have a strong view on the ethics of it, I don't particularly like it but I'm not going to extend that to say ban it, but as long as nobody is being coerced into anything I don't see why it should be illegal and the regulation should be framed in favour of the health and well being of the prostitutes.

If migsy wants to do then she should be allowed to IMO.

[VivianStanshall]

True, no effect on me. I have had friends who've mentioned that they have and that's up to them, I don't openly approve or disapprove.

I'm not up for a feminism debate but doesn't the fact that there are a lot of male prostitutes out there (the Paul Flowers case highlighting this) show that men as well as women can be purchased?

I would also go ahead fix an existing problem rather than putting it on hold in its current bad state.