It's just a calendar.......

[newme2014]

Been here for years and recently name changed. Opened our own business last January with my husband ( male dominated job )
Have just started in the last few weeks reading through all the threads here and downloaded a few books which I am reading. I realise I am shamefully uneducated and have in the past been unable to articulate or argue my point properly IYKWIM?
So anyhoo husband mentioned in the passing that a rep had been in with calendars and he'd been given a couple... brought one home for the children for their bedroom and said he'd put the other one up in the tea room at work wink wink??
It's obviously a calendar of naked women. He knows how i feel about the way women are portrayed and exploited but says it's ' only a calendar' and no big deal. The guys need a bit of morale boosting and it's harmless. WTF??? Men need to have a naked female bodies to look at while at work?? Really??
I don't agree and told him to remove it. Nothing else mentioned and when it was brought up again turns out it's still there.
Am I being unreasonable in expecting him to take it down or is it really ok in that kind of work place in this day and age. I don't feel it is but I am struggling to tell him why ( not that I feel like I should have to explain myself to him!!!)
So long and short is i have told him that if it doesn't come down I will be in first thing Monday to take it down. Always thought he agreed with me on these issues and there's no porn etc in our home and he's never been to lap dancing but he thinks the calendar is ok?
Maybe it is ok and i am blowing it up out of all proportion!!!!

[JeanSeberg]

LTB.

[afromom]

Presumably the one he brought home for the children's room wasn't of naked ladies, or I think I would be more concerned about that one!

[LurcioLovesFrankie]

Okay, ignoring the posters who seem to be under the misapprehension that you've posted in the Stepford wives branch of AIBU rather than FWR several things spring to mind.

1. If it's a business you have started jointly then you have as much say in how it's run as he has.
   
   
2. Just because it's a male-dominated sector of business doesn't mean that all concern for women being free from sexual harrassment in the work place goes out the window. In fact I'd argue that it becomes even more important to try to counteract the environment by making sure things like girlie calendars aren't plastered up in the coffee room. And (given that you own the business together) there is at least one woman in that workplace being made uncomfortable - you.
   
   
3. Relationships tend to thrive when the two parties share fundamental values. So for instance a relationship can take a disagreement over what the appropriate date is to put the Christmas tree up, but it usually can't take a really fundamental difference over moral or political issues, not without a lot of work. And him thinking it's perfectly okay to objectify women while you think it's not is a pretty fundamental difference in values. You can either sweep it under the carpet (not a good idea - the smell will linger and infuse everything else you try to do) or try to discuss (which might take you into some dangerous territory, or might enable the two of you to develop a position you're both happy with - I can't predict which).
   
   But do ignore the cool Stepford wives types telling you to relax - you don't have to. You are allowed to say that this is a major issue of principle for you.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

It's your joint business, go ahead and take it down.

[CaptChaos]

I think I'd be looking at this from the POV of what does his choice to put a calendar like that up say about his relationships with women. He was happy enough to start a business with you, but he actually thinks that women's place in the workforce is half naked and present for the titilation of the actual workers? What's that all about? Take it down off the wall first thing, but also discuss why you're doing it and how his ability to objectify the women in the calendar also sends messages about his views of you and all other women.

[LittleBearPad]

Take it down. It's grim. And doesn't say a lot about your husbands attitude to women. Do you have a daughter. Ask him if he'd like a picture if her in a similar calendar in years to come.

[newme2014]

Oh I am ignoring them.....

Thank you all. I am not working in the business as such but it is half mine so yes my point was that as we are 50/50 it should be as much my decision as his so it is coming down.
I hate the thought that i have gone along with the idea that he is in agreement with me when he's actually not. Away this weekend so not planning to talk about anything heavy as we never get time alone but Sunday night will be a big discussion.
It had better be thrashed out or I don't know what will happen.... He has said it is a woman's choice to lap dance or pose nude/porn and after discussing it and showing him some of the arguments against it... how damaging it is for young men and boys and the women concerned he agrees that is it awful and then thinks it's ok to put it up in the tea room??
We have 2 daughters and I did ask how he would feel/explain to them if they were in his work and saw it?? I won't be sweeping it under the carpet. I am very glad I started reading threads on FWR. I have been so ignorant over the years abd unable to argue my corner but no more!!

[sashh]

Do you have an equality and diversity policy? If you don't then write one.


Would he find it acceptable to put pictures of your naked daughters on the wall? Why is that different?

Does he want his daughters to be only valued for the amount of 'sexy' men see in them? That is what this calendar represents.

Lapdancing clubs (and there is a whole argument about how much choice there really is) have to have blanked out windows, but he wants to put an image of something that happens behind closed doors, never in the presence of children on the wall.

I'd also be phoning the rep and asking why the company produces such things, and if there is an alternative I would be literally taking my business elsewhere.


The bottom line is you don't like it. You want it taking down. Why does he object to that? Is his opinion more important than yours? Is he more important than you? Does he believe he is superior? because what he is doing is waving his dick in the air and saying your ideas, opinions, thoughts, all less important than his dick.

[SilenceOfTheSAHMs]

OP don't get me started. I worked on a farm once, and in the staffroom/canteen there was a filthy ,verging on porno calendar. Of course when me and the only other female who worked there challenged it we were met with as follows

"you're only jealous"

"It's just a laugh!"

"Don't f*ing look at it then"

So the other lady produces a rather rude calendar of men, and placed it at the side of their lady calendar and the male workforce went mad. We were met with as follows

"It's gay"

I'm not looking at some blokes knob while I drink my coffee"

"It's weird, look they're all gay!" homophobic and sexist much

The boss removed them both to keep the peace.

Double. Standards.

[EBearhug]

If someone put up a calendar like that at my work, they'd be very quickly up before HR for harassment. Besides all that, it's just unprofessional.

(Farms aren't all like that, either - there's no way my farmer father would have allowed such a calendar up anywhere that other people could see it, i.e. anywhere on the farm.)

[PleaseJustLeaveYourBrotherAlon]

Is that even legal? I'd be worried about that side of things on top of the fact that it makes your dh looks like an ass. It also for the record makes the business look crap and amateur as well.

It night take you an afternoon but maybe replace it with a calendar of your own? 12 embarassing pics of your dh to raise moral

a calendar of notable women through history?

www.vistaprint.co.uk/ab-wallcalendar-deskcalendars.aspx?mk=pla&ad=exact&crtv=37897897386&psite=mkwid|YyxNAd9x&device={device}&GP=2%2f2%2f2014+10%3a48%3a50+AM&GPS=3092804900&GNF=0

[HarrietSchulenberg]

I have been known to while away an hour or two drawing clothes, scarves and bobblehats on calendars of tasteless naked people in magic marker. The owners of the calendars do not usually appreciate my artwork. Personally I thought the black, knee-length shift dress and cheeky beret combo complemented Miss July's vacant stare rather well, but the man who'd paid £15 for his 12 months of bare-cheeked totty clearly didn't agree.

Either chuck the thing in the bin or have a creative afternoon. If you draw some nice opaque underwear on the models first you could get the kids making jumpers and frocks out of paper and glueing them on!

[PleaseJustLeaveYourBrotherAlon]

That's a great idea harriet.. OP glue the entire FiftyPlus catalog to all the women!

[specialsubject]

wow, this still goes on? Tell your husband to get back to the seventies where he belongs.

I was able to shame people out it even then by comments that we were an engineering firm, not a gynaecological department.

[PenguinsDontEatKale]

Regardless of his views on porn/naked calendars more generally, displaying one in the workplace is opening himself up to all sorts of legal claims from female employees.

Not a feminist argument as such, but a bloody good reason for a co-owner of the business to intervene.

And no, men don't need their morale boosted by seeing naked women. Buy them a box of doughnuts or something.

[noddingoff]

I agree that it makes a place look crap and amateur.
I would also ring the rep and give them a bollocking.

[newme2014]

Thank you all and sorry not to post earlier... been away at the weekend.
You have all said exactly how I feel. Thankfully there are no women in the workplace. I would bloody hope it wouldn't have gone up if there had been.
The calendar is down and binned ( by him ) but I feel so disappointed and actually let down by the whole thing. I had no idea that he would think that would be ok at work? Especially when he knows my views??
I think he was more worried about what the blokes would think/say about him taking it down than my feelings which made me feel crap. I
I am feeling very differently about him this week.... not sure where to go from here. I feel like it will be a constant battle with him now. Been together for 20+ years and never felt like this before. Its almost like finding out Santa Claus isn't real
Is it possible for men to change or understand that it's just plain wrong for some stuff??

[EBearhug]

I think you need to talk to him about it. Also, if he really is worrying about what the men think and feel about him doing perfectly normal management tasks, he's going to struggle. He will piss people off sometimes. As long as he treats them fairly and with respect, that's what matters. You don't manage people as a popularity contest.

Spend some time looking up diversity, equality and harassment and so on, and get your diversity policy drawn up, then let everyone know it's in place, and they are expected to abide by it.

[Julietee]

I do not get why it's ever necessary for dudes to be aroused at work for the purposes of 'morale' (hell, even on a porn set arousal is more of a luxury than a necessity!). Have you ever said, 'gee darling, I wish I could do the invoices but I'm not horny enough yet!'. When you reframe it, it's clearly ridiculous. And the above poster is right, having a girlie calendar just looks unprofessional in this day and age and actively creates an environment that's hostile to women.

Surely a lovely fruit platter or cookies on a friday would raise morale more? If your husband actually thinks about it, I'm sure he'll realise he doesn't absolutely require his male workers to be walking around horny to be able to do their jobs.

[VegetariansTasteLikeChicken]

I think he was more worried about what the blokes would think/say about him taking it down than my feelings which made me feel crap.

Unfortunately even adults sometimes cave to peer pressure, but as Ebear said, it's not a popularity contest and as the boss he needs to rise above it. Don't feel too bad, and try not to LTB just yet, but hopefully this will be the last and not the first in a line of sexist behavior.

[VegetariansTasteLikeChicken]

SilenceOfTheSAHMs btw, I love your story!

[newme2014]

Ebearhug knowing the guys who work there ( only 7 of them ) they will be more than happy with it being in the crew room!!
It has really shocked me as we have had discussions over the long years we have been together and he has always said he agrees with my views on stripping/porn...? He just seems genuinely confused about the 'fuss' I am making about a calendar in a work environment where there is only ever men and there's not likely to ever be a woman working there.
He says he can't change how the guys think about women being objectified which I understand but I am not having it in my/our business!!!!
Will be having another discussion when we don't have one of our many children around the place....
Thanks Vegetarians It better be the last!!!

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Would he give them tickets to a strip club as part of their employee perks?

[newme2014]

The Doctrine hah who bloody knows?? Last week I would have said absolutely not but now I can't say for sure. I am going to go through on Saturday with lunch for the guys ( do that once or twice a month ) and I will be having a look round. If there's anything there that I think is inappropriate then there will be a chat with everyone and I will be making it clear that calendars and magazines etc are for looking at in their own time!!
Am also looking at equality, diversity and harassment policies online so thank you to whoever mentioned that. I know that in the industry he is in it was/is very common but I don't actually give a shit if it still is or not. It ain't happening in my business and my husband will be thrashing lots out in future!!

[EBearhug]

He probably could do something about how they think about women if he were really determined to, but he clearly doesn't think it's that important. Company culture is set from the top, and he may not be able to stop them wanking to porn in their own time, but he can absolutely stop them objectifying women in the workplace by letting them know the calendar is out of order and conversations of a "phwoar, look at the pair on that!" nature are also unacceptable in the workplace. It will be harder to instil as it hasn't been that way from the outset, but it can be done.

Surely it's about the principle of the thing? You want to be running a business where people are respectful to each other and to any visitors/customers. That includes no objectifying calendars. They really will survive a working day without it.

And how do you know there won't ever be a woman working there? Are you just going to bin any applications from women, or refuse to interview them? Or is it just you're allowing an atmosphere to develop that's so hostile to women, none would want to work there anyway? Women work in all sorts of fields these days, even when all their colleagues are men.