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What would you do if a university student wanted to bring her newborn to class?

(369 Posts)
camaleon Tue 21-Jan-14 17:04:49

That is really. I have to make a decision regarding this. I need advice. I want to accommodate this student as much as possible but I am very aware of disrupting other students' learning experience.
What would you do?

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 24-Jan-14 15:07:08

minnie - as I say, I really don't know.

I think, sadly, the difficulty isn't just explicit institutional rules but implicit pressures. Certainly when I was 18, it was simply presented to me as 'not an option' to have a baby and study. Not because it was actually against the university rules, but because no-one I spoke to had anything to say except 'this is a very bad idea'. And it makes me angry that I know someone who was told precisely the same earlier this year, so some things don't change.

In terms of rules, it will vary from university to university, but I would worry about the implicit pressure to defer and return.

But this thread is only people talking about their own knowledge, and some of us (me!) only know what we've seen at our own instititions. It could be very different at others.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Minnieisthedevilmouse Fri 24-Jan-14 14:40:55

I'm a grad myself. Not from myself. Blooming phone!

Minnieisthedevilmouse Fri 24-Jan-14 14:40:18

Id guess I expected a kind of mat leave or supported study for six months with optional attendance to lectures/seminars/ outings. Is the only answer to defer a year? Thus separating you from all friends etc? Bizarre.

I'm a grad from myself. I assumed I guess that as schools do have answers in place for underage and up to 18 what is effectively a school for adults might have thought it through a bit. I'm a bit perplexed as this thread suggests there isn't much of anything in place.

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 24-Jan-14 14:18:34

I honestly don't know what the policy is where I am for undergraduates and maternity leave. I suspect, unfortunately, that students would probably simply be encouraged to intermit for the year, though for some this would work fine.

For postgrads it is different, and you do get normal maternity leave.

I direct you to buffy's comment mini grin

I'd be quite happy if it was a dad taking care of his newborn. But the op is about a mother (and I will be the mother in class myself). My point is that the majority of caring for newborns is for biological reasons at least (the majority of women do bf at first at least) usually done by women so to kick newborns out is to mostly kick out women.

kickassangel Fri 24-Jan-14 14:02:15

When I was talking to college about doing an MA I said I could have childcare problems. The immediate response was that lecturers would be expected to accommodate that in some way, including letting dd sit at the back and read or play games.

I think universities are realizing that lack of childcare tends to exclude mothers and that they should keep them in board, particularly as it helps them to make money.

At the university I went to, lecture attendance was not mandatory (but in the smaller lectures if you had the same seminar tutor it would be noticed and commented on) but seminar attendance was compulsory and you had to attend 80% to pass the course, or have very good reason.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Minnieisthedevilmouse Fri 24-Jan-14 13:56:39

Thank you. I'd like an accommodation too but am wary of....unsure which word appropriate...favouritism?

That said I'm a bit surprised there's not a supported study option in first few weeks? The question being asked you itself makes me assume there's no approach already in place...,? That can't be right....? Schools have to.

I think as a one off fine. I am conscious of the additional students though who may not be keen every week. What of their (hate this word but another escapes me) rights?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Minnieisthedevilmouse Fri 24-Jan-14 13:51:40

Also please, as I don't know, what are you classifying as mewborn ? And are there not policies in place for some sort of mat leave or supported study?

This can't be a new question surely....? Universities must see this and taken an approach....?

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 24-Jan-14 13:50:18

minne - I would be rather happier to see the dad bring a baby in, though I'd keep quiet about that! grin If more men did it I think it'd be a damn sight easier to explain to certain people that actually, yes, there is a real issue here. Depressing, but true.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 24-Jan-14 13:48:05

YY, this is what I am thinking.

I know that age 18-22, which is when most people go to university, is a time when things like depression and anxiety aren't that uncommon, and I believe (could be wrong) that it's also when some other mental health issues tend to start showing if you have them - and if you're badly depressed, sometimes it can be extremely hard to talk and easier to write.

Obviously there's a flipside in that you need to really work to make it feel like a network, a community where people know each other and that would be extremely difficult to do purely online. But you could try.

Re. bums on seats - when I was at university, if you were persistently absent without permission, you could be fined! Never happened to me (not for lack of absence, for lack of being a cocky git about skiving, which tended to be the real reason they'd bother to fine you). However, my lectures weren't mandatory. Where I am now, I take attendance and they are required to attend. If they persistently truant, they can get chucked out. I'm not sure what I think of it.

Something I find very difficult is that I am supposed to mark them on participation in seminars. Obviously that's important and it's not fair not to contribute. But with some of them, it clearly is shyness. So I tend to put them in groups, then eavesdrop the quiet ones, and then I'll say something like 'right, Jane, you had a brilliant point about x just now'. But I suspect some of the Janes (it is usually women) would be quite able to write down what they thought if need be.

Sorry, I see that all of this is getting a long way away from the original question and I hope the OP isn't offended. blush

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Minnieisthedevilmouse Fri 24-Jan-14 13:46:54

Unsure if covered, why does it matter if it's the mother please?

Would you be happy for dad, or any relative to bring a newborn in?

If not why not?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I was thinking about asking about this. I will have a newborn dc and will be taking a maths class for adults soon. (not a university course). I used to take my newborns everywhere with me as long as they had a nipple (of some sort) in their mouth they really didn't make a peep.

I'd let her if she isnt distracting the class (obviously I would). Telling her no, is only potentially putting her off university and other women too. ONly women will be punished by not allowing newborns won't they?

DuskAndShiver Fri 24-Jan-14 13:39:02

Me too! I find that I have gained a lot of confidence from chatting online (a bit like your point on the other thread, about noting points before you get a chance to say them, but noting them does something useful for you).

(So thank you for that! I luffs you all)

I think to people who are privileged by their persona in "real life" encounters, this online stuff feels like "barbarians at the gate". It is the very fact that anyone can speak which is so threatening, as they have internalised a confidence in life's "quality control" measures, in self-justification, when they not controlling quality at all - controlling all sorts of other stuff, but not quality.

In fact quality control is very easy online. You can read and sort through stuff very quickly that in a real life conversation you would be forced to put up with, through politeness, for ages.

Not being in academia, I am interested to learn that so much importance is attached to bums on seats. When I was at college no one cared what I turned up to. It was my education, and I was free to piss it up the wall if I wanted - but the exams would take no prisoners. If checking continuing engagement is now important, there are brilliant online ways of doing this effortlessly - a 5 minute IM "mini-viva" taking place at certain points throughout the term could allow a teacher to say "great stuff, carry on doing what you're doing" or "seriously? that was a trick question, there was no 4th Silesian War. Pull your finger out"

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DuskAndShiver Fri 24-Jan-14 13:19:52

"I would be really interested to see how differently an online chat forum worked for a class."

me too.
someone on here has already pointed out how interesting it is online that people can't literally talk over you. Individuals can ignore you, but you can still say your thing. It must substantially alter the seminar dynamic.
Also - the networking angle - a forum for your subject would be a million times more user-friendly for shy people, people who don't like physically approaching people, people with timed childcare or work shifts to rush off to, etc.
At work people are always saying "let's do a call" or "we need a meeting" and often I push back (if I have the confidence) because it takes up a lot of time and it is a way of them pushing themsedlves up my priorities, by forcing a personal relationship and investment of more of my time, which they don't necessarily deserve (I have the right to set my own priorities according to the needs of the business); and more importantly, they are deliberately switching the dynamic to one in which it will be easier to push me around, because I will be outnumbered, and the emphasis will switch from the logic of the situation to a relationship situation where I am being pressured to consider their feelings, and also they will - dammit they will! - do man-to-woman social stuff on me. I would love to have been able to do academic stuff online, including networking, to get out of shit like this.

"It's interesting - a lot of the alternatives to bums on seats teaching are seen as informal or lowbrow, as if it's automatically trivializing."

By people whose interests it is in to carry on striding about owning the space.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

insancerre Fri 24-Jan-14 10:24:42

I started reding this thread thinking that it would be a bad idea to let her bring the baby. I thought it might open the floodgates and it might be difficult to draw the line between a sleeping newborn and a mobile toddler.
But, after re-reading, I hope that the Op can accomodate the mother and baby.
If it is just a one-off and the presentation is an intergral part of the course, then I see no reason why the student couldn't take the baby.
Obviously, it would be better if she could arrnage alternative childcare, but if she is really stuck, then I think it is very supportive of the op.

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