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Disney's Frozen - really not bad from a feminist viewpoint (SPOILERS included)

(17 Posts)
poorbuthappy Tue 31-Dec-13 16:44:36

We've just watched tangled again, and the quality of writing is sooo much better in that than Frozen, Its almost like everytime they got close to having a decent moment (of writing that is) they stuck a song in there instead.

And why did she have the power and her sister didn't?

Loopytiles Tue 31-Dec-13 16:41:56

Better by far than other Disney films have seen.

Like others, liked the emphasis on sisterhood and the leads being female. Liked the themes of power/bravery, and that there was no love interest or desire for one for the older sister. There were a few positive males in it, the king, head troll (though obviously would've been better if head troll was a woman!) and snowman!

Didn't like the "everyone's a fixer-upper" troll song; that it was implied that Ana was falling in love with the blond bloke at the end; or the line that "all men pick their noses" and Ana's disgust.

Suelford Mon 30-Dec-13 19:19:10

I liked it, although the trolls being aghast at her getting engaged to the prince after a few hours, but then trying to get her married to the berk after a few days seemed a bit hypocritical!

ProfondoRosso Sun 29-Dec-13 22:20:16

I haven't seen the film, but read the story book to my DNiece and was quite heartened by the emphasis on sisterhood.

clary Sun 29-Dec-13 22:19:16

LOL It's not me that wants the toys!

poorbuthappy Sun 29-Dec-13 22:17:54

I think it's a shame that in order to have a female empowered disney film we had to forgo any type of story.

KaseyM Sun 29-Dec-13 22:11:37

That's true Solid. Or if there's a good female she's contrasted against evil conniving power-crazed witch/stepmother cos you know, we wouldn't want women getting along would we?!

Have convinced DS to see it tomorrow. He hates going to the cinema cos he thinks all kids' films are rubbish. Very cynical!

SolidGoldBrass Sun 29-Dec-13 21:52:50

Clary: Aw, but wouldn't you want a cuddly snowman?

PenguinsDontEatStollen Sun 29-Dec-13 21:52:10

I am not sure I agree with that assessment of the characters actually.

The prince is a villain - but of the standard villain template. The other I would say is a fairly straightforward 'good guy'. I think maybe he comes across as a 'berk' because he is definitely in a sidekick role, rather than as 'lead male'. I'm not sure we'd assess a female character who was led around in the same way.

SolidGoldBrass Sun 29-Dec-13 21:51:58

But the 'well-meaning berk' trope is a feature of a lot of films that are about said male character. It's not necessarily a negative. And most films cast all the female characters as either vacant or wicked.

KaseyM Sun 29-Dec-13 21:44:54

"the two main male characters are respectively an abusive liar and a well-meaning berk"

Haven't seen it but don't much like it when a film that ostensibly is about the the girls feels it has to cast the male chars in a bad light. I know feminists don't do that, but lots of film makers tend to see it as necessary it seems.

Still will reserve judgement till seen..

clary Sun 29-Dec-13 20:50:06

My DD loves this film (she is 12) but even she speaks highly of the fact that the act of true love is from one sister to another, and also falling in love with Hans in two seconds flat is proved to be absurd.

So yes, maybe not so bad in terms of feminist icons. Also the only male character you would want as a doll/plush is Sven (apparently). And he's only for the girls to ride on smile

SolidGoldBrass Sun 29-Dec-13 20:46:26

Yes, I particularly liked the fact that the evil prince started out being presented as charming and sympathetic. For most of the film I was sort of expecting the resolution to be that the ice-seller bloke would marry Elsa while Ana married the charming one, so was really impressed that it didn't turn out that way.

PenguinsDontEatStollen Sun 29-Dec-13 19:53:05

Yep, generally liked it.

Liked that, for once, the two lead characters were female. Interesting that it would also pass a reverse Bechdel, despite having strong 'love story' storylines, exposing all those horrendous apologies for poor female characters in stories with male leads somewhat.

Liked the fact that 'an act of true love' was assumed to be romantic love, but was actually the sisters.

Liked the fact that everyone saw the ridiculous 'falling in love in two hours' for what it was. Anna could be forgiven given her isolation.

Liked the fact that the queen didn't need a love interest.

Liked the 'Let it Go' song (do have a soft spot for Idina Mendzel (sp?))

Wasn't entirely keen on the thigh high split and wiggly walk the queen suddenly acquired, but could live with it in a generally decent film.

SolidGoldBrass Sun 29-Dec-13 18:33:10

Yeah - she turned from buttoned-up virgin into Britney Spears a la Toxic video, which did have the slight connotations of 'girl getting sexy = bad bitch' but I guess you can't get everything in a single film...

sassytheFIRST Sun 29-Dec-13 18:29:58

Yes not too bad in a "women dont need to be rescued" way. Did think the Queens choice of outfit/hairdo etc was a bit typical sex kitten halfway through though.

SolidGoldBrass Sun 29-Dec-13 18:26:49

Just taken DS to see it and pleasantly surprised. It's about sisters, who save themselves and each other; the two main male characters are respectively an abusive liar and a well-meaning berk. Definite Bechdel pass, as well: the sisters talk to each other about their lives and their relationship with each other.

OK they both have impossibly tiny waists and big dumb eyes, but the film ends with the older sister settling into happy single queendom, and even though she Does Bad Things earlier on it's presented very much as Not Her Fault. I even managed to discuss in a whisper with DS how silly her parents were...

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