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Gutted to discover that my BF is a misogynist.

(57 Posts)
YouAreMyRain Sun 08-Dec-13 21:44:07

He believes that women who do manual work should be paid less as they tend to be given the easier jobs which are less physically demanding.

He thinks that life/business/politics is now a completely level playing field for women. I pointed out the lack of female world leaders compared to men, his response is that it is due to less women aspiring to be prime minister etc.

I also pointed out that business done eg on the golf course excludes women. He thinks that women should take up golf.

I have accidentally had a baby with this man. I am beyond gutted, I am devastated. I'm not sure I can continue in this relationship now hmm

BasilCranberrySauceEater Mon 09-Dec-13 23:05:32

Boyfriend covers a multitude of sins in my book.

It may be your partner of 30 years or your lover of 6 weeks or the man you lived with for 5 years before having a baby with him, who turns out to be a total stranger, someone you realise you didn't know at all and are not 100% sure you actually like.

TBH I would never assume any relationship is "close". Even parents. But perhaps I'm too cautious.

YouAreMyRain Mon 09-Dec-13 23:15:27

Accidentally had a baby because I believed myself to be infertile, and we have been together only 18 months!

YouAreMyRain Mon 09-Dec-13 23:16:34

I agree that I don't believe it is my role to educate him, I think he should (have) educate(d) himself.

BasilCranberrySauceEater Mon 09-Dec-13 23:19:52

18 months isn't long in my book. How old is your baby YAMR?

CailinDana Mon 09-Dec-13 23:20:19

In that case op it seems it's bin time for bf.

Misfitless Mon 09-Dec-13 23:30:41

Misogynist? hmm

IMO the OP's DP has not presented anything to suggest he is a low-level or up-levelled, or any other level of misogynist.

He's maybe a bit ignorant.

This feels a bit blown out of proportion to me.

Seriously, am I really the only one who has thought '...if an acute awareness of feminist issues is top of your list of characteristics in a potential partner and father of your child, that perhaps you've been a bit ignorant, too, OP?


BasilCranberrySauceEater Mon 09-Dec-13 23:37:00

You're probably not the only one who has thought that Misfitless, but you would be wrong to.

Would you think it was OTT to have a dislike of and awareness of racism as a dealbreaker?

You know, if you were going to live with a black person, wouldn't you think it was reasonable to have some kind of awareness of the racism that is still prevalent in society? If you're going to live with a woman, why is it unreasonable to expect the same respect?

YouAreMyRain Mon 09-Dec-13 23:41:09

Baby is 11 weeks old. Accidentally got pg less than a year into our relationship.

crunchypower Mon 09-Dec-13 23:51:33

He will be able to sort it out OP. It's only the pay comment that maybe sexist. Depending on whether he is focusing on energy expended during manual work or gender.

That's if you want to sort it out

Misfitless Tue 10-Dec-13 00:16:30

You have totally misunderstood my post, Basil.

My objection was to the OP's use of the word 'misogynist' to describe her BF.

Not everyone, regardless of their gender, has an in depth understanding and awareness of feminist issues.

The views the BF has expressed are ignorant and sexist.

Being sexist does not equate to being a misogynist.

I was not commenting on whether or not the OP's BF's views should be a deal breaker.

The racism argument is not relevant because I was not suggesting that the BF's expressed views are acceptable; therefore, I do not need you to try and educate me by giving me another example to help me understand.

People shouldn't throw the word 'misogynist' around without good cause, especially if you don't know what it means. It's extremely emotive.

scallopsrgreat Tue 10-Dec-13 09:56:08

Misogynist is a perfectly reasonable word to use. The problem with his views are that they are what keeps the inequality between the sexes going. It is low-level misogyny if you like. Pervasive and mainstream but shows a fundamental lack of respect for women. The belief that if women were just a bit more like men or should have to fit in a world designed for and by men then they'd be equal. Not that the world should accommodate women too.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines misogyny as: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. I think that covers what YouAreMyRain's BF is exhibiting.

The thing with misogyny is that because it is so pervasive most people will exhibit some level of misogyny. Doesn't mean to say that the situation is irretrievable or someone won't change their mindset when their conscious is raised. But I don't think that misogyny is all about extreme hatred of all women. And tbh I think it should be used more often. Name the problem.

JoTheHot Tue 10-Dec-13 18:35:58

Misogyny is not defined in terms of the consequences of a given view, but rather in terms of the psychology underlying said views. This is a distinction feminists who bandy the term around at every opportunity don't seem to get. Views are not misogynistic because they harm women, they are misogynistic because they are negative towards women. Believing the playing field is flat is not misogynistic, it's just ignorant. Believing the playing field shouldn't be flat is misogynistic. Do you now see the distinction scallop?

Believing that pay should reflect productivity, and that women and men are treated equally does NOT show a fundamental lack of respect for women. I suppose you could argue that the latter belief is sufficiently ignorant, that it could only be held by someone totally uninterested in the lot of women, and thus presumably lacking respect for women, but that's getting fairly tenuous.

ashesgirl Tue 10-Dec-13 20:02:00

Definitions of misogyny have broadened remarkably in recent years so not surprising there's some disagreement here on whether it is or isn't.

Misfitless Tue 10-Dec-13 20:10:59

Well said Jo.
I stand by my post. We'll just have to agree to disagree, Scallops.

scallopsrgreat Tue 10-Dec-13 20:27:25

Believing that pay should reflect productivity, and that women and men are treated equally Except he didn't say that.

Believing the playing field is flat Except he didn't just say that.

Do you now see the distinction JoTheHot?

BasilCranberrySauceEater Tue 10-Dec-13 20:50:14

The Oxford English Dictionary recently changed the definition of misogyny afair.

I wonder if the OP's primary concern is to nail down whether her boyf is misogynist, sexist or merely pig ignorant though.

scallopsrgreat Tue 10-Dec-13 21:09:20

That's very true Basil! I don't suppose the distinction much matters. His attitude is still there!

Misfitless Tue 10-Dec-13 21:14:27

Well that explains it then!

The one I referred to was the one I bought when I was doing my A-Levels in 1991 a few years back.blush.


Misfitless Tue 10-Dec-13 21:24:05

I think the distinction matters very much.

It can be the difference between being sexist/ignorant/misogynist.

Golddigger Tue 10-Dec-13 21:34:40

The trouble with not educating a partner is that then they remain ignorant. Which isnt often in the best interest of either party. Which can be quite a disaster as evidenced here.

YouAreMyRain Tue 10-Dec-13 21:41:43

I have come to the conclusion that he is ignorant with maybe a pinch of absorbed/unchallenged low level sexism. He does work in a very male dominated industry and has always worked in similar areas.

I am disappointed that he has not yet challenged these views but I don't believe him to be a lost cause. He has never expressed sexist views before and is positive about women being capable and successful, I have had my twat radar set to "super sensitive" and have been very alert to red flags and haven't spotted any. I think that's why I was so shocked and upset. I will talk to him and see how things go. Thank you for all your posts, they have helped me to clarify what's what.

Branleuse Tue 10-Dec-13 21:43:36

doesnt sound like youre that into him tbh.
Is this even a serious post?

Cant you have actual discussions with him and talk about his views and put yours forward?? Thats a fun thing to do in a relationship - yknow, talk about stuff, exchange views, debate.

Ive changed my dps views on loads of things over time, and he has changed my view on things too.

Nobodys perfect

YouAreMyRain Tue 10-Dec-13 21:59:18

I am very into him actually and I do love him and want to be with him. Trouble is that my past experiences make me very jumpy and ready to run at the first sign of twattishness. I didn't feel the need to get all gushy on here as I didn't see my feelings for him as part of the equation, if anything I was worried that they were clouding my judgement of the situation, hence my posting for more neutral responses.

My OP uses the term "gutted" not "miffed" or "slightly disappointed". I felt heartbroken at the thought of breaking up with him. I have spent two days sobbing. I know I am being over sensitive but I have had depression and anxiety in the past, I am aware that I am a high risk for PND and that my history makes me very cautious and emotionally defensive. That's why I value other peoples input.

Misfitless Wed 11-Dec-13 12:22:20

YouAre I had no idea of the strengths of your feelings.

I owe you an apology, I really didn't think you were in love with him, and think I've been a bit flippant, focusing totally on your wording in the title of your thread.

Hope you feel you can work it out if that's what you want.

NotCitrus Wed 11-Dec-13 12:51:26

I wouldn't write him off on the basis of the OP. Yes he's clearly ignorant, but thinking back to when I was say 19,.most men I knew would have said similar - as would half the women of the same age, and quite a few of our female teachers. We were entering a post-sexism world of uni and work, apparently...most are now pretty feminist.

How he reacts when faced with examples of sexism by others would be telling.

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