BBC Sports Personality of the year - the shortlist

[NorthernLurker]

Announced yesterday - 10 men, 2 women. Now is it me or is that a woefully poor number of women on the shortlist? Last year there were 5. In 2011 there was a fuss about the all male list and a BBC statement said "The current system was introduced in 2006 and at least two women have always previously been shortlisted for the main award" So the system was changed and this year, the second year it's been in operation two women have been shortlisted.....is that the minimum they reckon they can get away with

From memort I think the women's cricket team had a successful ashes too - but no nomination for one of the team there. Who would you want to have see nominated?

[JumpingJackSprat]

Id have likeed to see Charlotte Dujardin nominated. A phenomenal horse rider who has done a lot to raise the profile of the sport. I agree it looks as though they have selected the minimum number of women they can get away with. Until the bbc starts showing equal amounts of women's sport on tv as mens I don't think this will change.

[NorthernLurker]

That's it isn't it - women in sport have a lower profile and things like this just seeks to keep the status quo. I certainly think Andy Murray and Chris Froome should be nominated, likewise AP McCoy - who I think is very unlucky this year because I don't think he will win and he really should do because the scale of his achievement is epic BUT just two women? Come on BBC!

[Biggedybiggedybongsoitis]

It's a real pity, this. Sport is a huge passion in my life. My daughter has always been involved in one sport or another, and still is in her teens, but she isn't typical. So many of her friends can't be bothered.

I know the beeb isn't perfect, but recently they have covered women's football extensively (possibly the Euros) and the women's rugby series against the All Blacks. But isn't it a bit chicken and egg? TV money - which the beeb are partially exempt from as they don't carry advertising - follows the audiences, and so Sky piles it money into men's football, F1 etc.

So, do we throw TV money at women's sports hoping that more will become involved? Or do we encourage girls to take up more sports for life, and wait for the audiences to grow? I hardly ever see a sports discussion on here, unless it is this complaint about lack of coverage. I never see anyone chewing the fat about what they have been up to, sports wise. Maybe it's the wrong place for that.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Women's football is on at the arse end of the broadcast schedule. I think I came across it after midnight once when I'd got back late from somewhere. That's hardly going to draw the crowds is it? It's one thing to say, well we've done our bit, there just doesn't seem to be the interest, when there aren't likely to be many waiting up so late to watch it. It's paying lip service to the notion of promoting women's sport.

[spence82]

It would have been nice to see a more equal split but the list seems pretty justified to me. The only one I dont know much about it the rugby player but the rest have had a significant year in sport.

[Biggedybiggedybongsoitis]

Well, let's start with BBC women's football. England's World Cup qualifiers are all being shown live. If they are at odd times, that will be to do with the kick-off times. From the Euro Qualifiers, all of England's games are being shown live, including in HD. From the last Euro finals, the beeb showed 16 live matches. So, how is that paying lip service? Did you catch any of them? How many people actually go to women's Premier League football?

Football isn't the whole story, obviously. Someone mentioned cricket. The ECB are streaming live matches. Sky are showing the Eng vs Australia T20 matches live. It's nowhere near the level of the men's game coverage wise, but does anyone watch the stuff that is transmitted? How does the coverage compare? Are the commentators any good? I know Sky also shows the UK women's netball league live, and internationals. What is coverage of these like, in terms of the quality of the pundits etc?

[TiggyD]

Ben Ainslie – Sailing
Ian Bell – Cricket
Hannah Cockroft – Wheelchair athletics
Mo Farah - Athletics
Chris Froome - Cycling
Leigh Halfpenny – Rugby Union
AP McCoy – Horse Racing
Andy Murray – Tennis
Christine Ohuruogu - Athletics
Justin Rose - Golf

[Sausageeggbacon]

Has anyone been watching the sportswomen programme on sky sports? A lot of the issues are being discussed and at least sky has recognised there is enough of an issue to make a weekly half hour show out of. Cricket they think that a few women can now make a living out of it but it is a handful rather than enough to create leagues. It needs a few sponsors otherwise no money means we will get less coverage than poker.

Last live sporting event was DDs' karate tournament last weekend but was at Twickenham for the rugby (mens and womens) a couple of weeks back. I was so disappointed with the number of people though who left after the men's. Plenty of women there for the first match and then just emptied even though the match was free to watch.

[Biggedybiggedybongsoitis]

Women play professional football in the USA, where it's huge, and Italy, but I don't know of anywhere else. Women's soccer in the USA gets big crowds and so big sponsorship. I was in the US recently and college basketball is also a massive sport. There was live women's coverage of this alongside the men's game.

[Floralnomad]

Perhaps the women's cricket team will be nominated for the team award ,the bottom line is apart from some track cyclists how many British women have made a really great contribution this year ? I watch a lot of sport and quite a variety and I can't think of any woman who has made the same level of impact of the men nominated . Personally I'd rather they didn't feel obliged to put any women on the short list ,the short list should be on merit of achievement ,nothing to do with what gender you are . As it is Andy Murray is surely a dead cert to win .

[scallopsrgreat]

I think the thing with televised sport and sport in all media tbh is that the coverage of men's sport goes way beyond the actual match or even a tournament. There are massive build ups. Characters and personalities are made known to us, in a way that just isn't done with the majority of female sport. It is much easier to get connected with men's sport.

There is an element of men will watch men's sport and women will watch men's sport but men aren't interested in women's sport (along similar premises to why CBeebies claim to show far more male characters than female characters ). And of course women have traditionally not been encouraged to participate or enjoy sport so naturally that has a knock on effect to who views sport.

[scallopsrgreat]

If it were on merit of achievement then Chrissy Wellington would have been nominated several times and probably won at least once.

[Biggedybiggedybongsoitis]

Agreed Flora, but it does open the wider question of coverage. It's all about getting girls involved in sport, and without high profile role models it becomes more difficult. As I said, chicken and egg.

[Floralnomad]

Yes .but not this year .

[scallopsrgreat]

Or ever in fact Floral. Which shows that the list isn't compiled on merit necessarily. Other factors are at play.

[Floralnomad]

I agree about the coverage but that doesn't detract from the fact that there is good coverage of women's swimming ,athletics ,tennis ,golf and cricket ( on sky) and there are no british women in any of those sports that should get the award this year ( other years maybe ) .

[Biggedybiggedybongsoitis]

I bet a lot of men watched Jess Ennis, the women's rowers, the cycling team etc etc at the Olympics. High profile events, big stakes, world class athletes - these are what make for big audiences. If Heather Watson or Laura Robson make the breakthrough, I bet they get Murray-style treatment. We Brits love a successful athlete.

Women aren't ignored just because they are women.

[scallopsrgreat]

Well tbh Biggedy you should go on to some of the rowing chat sites for example to see what the male rowers think of female rowers. They are very much ignored because they are women. Not just ignored either, insulted, humiliated even despised.

Men's sport is the default. Women's sport is still trying to make its mark.

[scallopsrgreat]

Funding is another factor. Funding in sport such as swimming, athletics, rowing is done through the lottery, in the main, in the UK. Athletics does has appearance fees and prizes in things like the Golden League as well. Obviously those fees are higher for men. But in sports where funding is similar between the sexes, the success of women follows a similar path to the men. In sports such as rugby, cricket and football the funding for women is minuscule in comparison to the funding men get. That is going to play a part in their success and their profile.

The Welsh Rugby board spends millions on their men's national team and 10s thousands on their female team, for example.

[scallopsrgreat]

So you can argue it is just down to individuals, women should be more active and achieve more, then they'd get nominated if you want. But that'd be completely ignoring all the structural inequalities that do make it much easier to ignore women's sport.

[specialsubject]

I have very little interest in or knowledge of spectator sport. But the odd times when women's football comes up on the news, you can hear that the crowd is almost entirely female.

is the game any different? (presumably not). In which case, is there any other factor which makes it less interesting if the other gender is having a kickabout?

[kaizen]

I'd like to have seen Non Stanford for her World Triathlon Championship - our women have dominated in the world triathlon series this year.

Then again, we always see more segments of the men's races broadcast than the women's, so that again sums up the attitude to female sport.

[Biggedybiggedybongsoitis]

Please don't put words into my mouth, scallops. I said from the start that women's sport does get far less coverage than men's. I was wondering how you go about changing it. But some coverage is out there on TV, and yet no-one has answered my questions about it - what is it like coverage wise, re the punditry, expertise, the in-depth analysis etc?

This is a recurring theme on MN, usually around the time of the SPY award. And yet someone has said that the only women's footie coverage is at the arse end of the scheduled day. This conveniently ignores the stuff I posted about full live coverage of the England team. Similarly with cricket, Sky and the ECB are showing tests and ODI's live, and yet this is ignored too. Same goes for the netball. I am repeating myself here, but I honestly think that some people want to gripe about this without knowing or caring what coverage actually goes on. Oh, and Sausage's point about everyone leaving after the men's rugby match - television companies are not going to be encouraged to cover women's sport if no-one can be bothered to stay for a free international. All the money in UK sport comes from Sky these days. If they can't sell advertising, they won't cover it. That, unfortunately is how it works.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Biggedy, I wasn't referring to the tournament you were taking about. It wasn't live football, full game coverage. It was the women's football league review programme and it was on at the arse end of the programming schedule - after midnight. There were a couple of pundits discussing English league games, nothing to do with tournaments being shown live at the time played on the other side of the world. And not every one has sky sports so my only experience of TV coverage comes from terrestrial TV.

[Sausageeggbacon]

Big, the coverage of Ladies cricket has reasonable punditry usually one former lady cricketer and one of the regular sky sports men's commentators. The coverage has got better if you have sky and the games are improving. Disappointing that there are so few fast bowlers and most teams seem to really on spin (two boys come in handy sometimes). Even with shortened boundaries the lack of sixes also lessens the enjoyment factor when compared to twenty20 say.

Football has struggled because of the funding but the skill levels have improved greatly over the last few years. However the game has issues. Pundits have been okay for football although the cliches are worse.

Rugby was change if/when 7's becomes a fixture at the olympics. But I was so disappointed when over 75,000 people declined to watch a free match. Standards are not there yet but with effort could be. As I was at the game no idea what the coverage was like.

Sky has had very good coverage of the netball both in terms of league and internationals. Commentary obviously is from all women teams.