Still upset..."I hate feminists"

[Youcanringmybell]

I visited some distant family a week ago. We were having a pleasant meal when one of the guys comments on the education system failing young men ( i have just started working in Education).

I agreed that this does seem to be the case. He then said "That is why I hate feminists". My mouth fell open.
He launched into a tirade of vitriol against how all feminists are like Harriet Harman, they we all want men 'bred out' and that because men pay the most taxes and women need maternity leave, feminists are basically the downfall of Britain today.

I consider myself a feminist. I told him this. I also told him that in MY limited experience feminists did NOT believe in Eugenics and the control of male births and infanticide (as he implied). That mosts feminists just want not to be assaulted verbally about the size of their tits, given less pay for the same jobs and not to open a newspaper and and see yet more breasts.

This man is friendly, intelligent and works in a caring profession.
Without a mentality like his we wouldn't need a feminist movement. I wish I knew more and then could have argued his points.

[Sunnywithshowers]

My stepmother is the same - she feels feminism is divisive and women should be 'feminine', whatever that means. I wear trousers, have short hair and am a feminist - we don't get on very well.

[HullMum]

well I suppose he may be the proof that education is failing men. If women who care that women should have equality are feminist he must hate a lot of women. tiresome little MRA. Did you comment that you don't hate men despite the fact they treated women as inferior since time pretty much began? Women were not allowed to vote in my great grand mothers lifetime. Women were not allowed certain jobs in my grandmother and mothers lifetime women were allowed to be raped in marriage in my lifetime and my 2 year old daughter has been born in to a time where women are being denied abortion when their lives depend on it, or in my country being prosecuted fot having miscarriages or still born children. Don't we have a better excuse to hate men, then they have to hate feminist?

[Moominsarehippos]

When my sister got her first mortgage when she got married, her income wasn't taken into consideration (it was in the 1970s). I believe that this was the norm.

So he wouldn't take paternity leave then? Or 'let' his wife work, vote, wear trousers, ride a bike... Oh sorry, that's the Taliban.

Silly boy.

[arsenaltilidie]

Is the education system failing boys or are girls doing better?
I feel its the latter.
Blaming feminist for boys failing is like blaming your wife for earning less.
Its just excuses.

[Moominsarehippos]

Girls have been 'doing better' in education for ages.

He's just one step away from blaming bloomin' forriners for doing better that white WC lads.

[StuffezLaYoni]

I always wonder about people with views like this. Do they genuinely believe them or have they heard them from someone else and evidence to peddle them on? I cannot think of a set of life experiences anyone could have that would lead them to believe women genuinely want to wipe men out...

[Moominsarehippos]

Maybe its just his personal experience and he assumes women hate all men, not just crap-spouting eedgits!

[HumphreyCobbler]

he sounds very, very stupid

I think you countered his arguments well, but you were never going to get anywhere with someone like this.

[Pfaffer]

I think you answered him well, to be honest

The point about schools and boys is far too complex to be reduced to 'the feminists did it'. It benefits everyone (except some of the children) to have children sitting still doing a certain kind of work which can be reduced to relatively simple data points. A quantifiable and passive education system is the result of that.

[Youcanringmybell]

Thank you.

I argued that his points about Feminism were how the media portray the feminists i.e as men hating psychotics and that is not what true feminism is about.
I raised the issues of Page three - which he said was small potatoes to what actual feminists want to do (kill boy babies apparently).

He is a gay man and I thought that he would understand a little more about how people are victimised and belittled for no good reason at all.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Hmm.

This reminds me of something. mansplained.tumblr.com/post/51168339588/how-not-to-chat-up-academic-feminists

Some men (and women) will always want to lecture you on how they don't like feminists, feminists are doing everything wrong, etc. etc.

I agree with LeStew that it's unlikely you could have said anything to change his mind. He obviously doesn't hear or accept anything that doesn't fit his world view, or he'd have noticed the blindingly obvious fact that he's talking a load of shite.

[scottishmummy]

as with all sweeping generalisations he is of course wrong
of course it irks,well done in retorting back
to be contrary I'd make some sweeping generalisations about his beliefs,see how he likes

[Youcanringmybell]

Yes LRD - He mansplained how feminists have ruined young men's chances to work and pay the taxes that the country so desperately need because of all the women taking maternity leave...

[CoalDustWoman]

That doesn't even make any sense.

You met a real life MRE - I thought they only existed on-line.

Were you with other people? If so, did anyone else say anything?

[Youcanringmybell]

My husband was there and the mans mum. She left the table as she obviously didn't like the 'tension'. My husband said very little and I was worried he agreed. I raised it with him and he said it all sounded very odd and strange (so relieved he didn't agree).

It was all fairly nicey-nicey at the table. I didn't want to cause a scene and felt out of my depth because he is so well read on all his anti-feminist bullshit.
But I didn't stay silent. I told him he was mistaken. That is not what feminists do.

[CoalDustWoman]

You did great.

Bit worrying that 2/3 of the non-MREs didn't, though. When good people do nothing and all that. That's why I think working out this stuff on-line is so valuable - it worked for him, because no-one except you had a response and he'd already honed his (non) arguments.

You wouldn't have changed his mind, though, so don't worry that you failed in any way.

[Youcanringmybell]

Thank you all
I did feel a bit of a failure but now I will have more confidence to speak up next time. I don't expect to change anyone's mind but I would hate them to think I agreed.

[CoalDustWoman]

Exactly.

Does your husband feel a failure?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I find it extremely difficult to speak up, too. Don't beat yourself up about it.

I was with a mate recently, and honestly, if she'd not been there to tell me afterwards 'yes, you did speak up', I would have felt as if I hadn't, because the bloke in question completely steamrollered past everything I said.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

He is a gay man and I thought that he would understand a little more about how people are victimised and belittled for no good reason at all.

He should indeed. There are many parallels between homophobia and sexism against women.

[Youcanringmybell]

Coal - No of course not, long forgotten for my husband. His eyes are not 'open' when it comes to these things. He is very passive. When I point things out though he understands and takes it on board. He has made me proud about a few things recently. He is maturing nicely

LRD - Well done for speaking up too then!!

Scone - Glad you agree. I was worried my mentioning his sexuality was inappropriate?

[FairPhyllis]

Unfortunately being a potential target for homophobia doesn't mean you're not totally oblivious to your own male privilege or openly misogynistic. I have seen some quite viciously nasty gay male misogyny.

[scottishmummy]

you've called it about right,social mileu isn't time for a full on ideological debate
you made your pov known,you didn't acquiesce to his opinion
one doesn't need be combative to make a point,often making it is enough

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

It is stunning me, at the moment, how many gay Tories seem to be fairly homophobic, too.

But that's another story.