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How crap is the news at the moment?

(74 Posts)
kim147 Tue 07-May-13 19:59:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

namechangeguy Thu 09-May-13 10:37:11

Darkstareyes said 'Just seen this on Twitter about Charles Ramsey. Apparently hes been convicted of domestic abuse in the past.'

How do you feel that is relevant to his actions in helping those women escape? That is a serious question by the way, not a dig. Do you feel it diminishes his actions?

FreedomOfTheTess Thu 09-May-13 10:55:05

Charles Ramsey was last convicted of domestic abuse 10 years ago.

I fail to see how the point of digging up his past is relevant and it certainly doesn't diminish what he did.

Is it too much to think that maybe, just maybe, he had turned his life around and changed?

BubblesOfBliss Thu 09-May-13 13:04:13

I felt really uncomfortable about all that 'Charles Ramsey is such hero' stuff before I found out about the DV in the past. He seemed to be loving the limelight a little too much, seemed a little too charismatic and charming...

Usually perps have a very different public and private persona. If he is a bit narcissistic this hero stuff will be totally in keeping with a puffed-up public image. I just wonder what the ex- partners think seeing him up there hailed as a hero.

It is great that he rescued the young women, but who knows about his motives? Maybe he is naturally curious? Maybe he loves a bit of high drama?

Of course it is possible that he has completely turned over a new leaf, but there's no reason to assume it.

People love a hero and don't like their stories spoiled.

TeiTetua Thu 09-May-13 17:26:31

I know nothing about Charles Ramsey and I don't see him as especially heroic, but if he has a past in domestic violence, it's just like the Gilbert & Sullivan song. You know, where a chorus of policemen lament that a criminal is an ordinary person when he's not actually committing crimes, whereas they have be policemen all the time. So maybe Charles Ramsey did or still does very bad things, but the rest of the time he's as capable of doing good as anyone. Or maybe he's a bully when he loses his temper, but otherwise he's as gentle as a lamb. Who knows. We want our heroes to be 100% pure, but human nature isn't like that.

specialsubject Thu 09-May-13 18:19:20

you've forgotten the WOMAN who murdered five people by setting a pushchair on fire.

murderers come in both genders.

Lessthanaballpark Thu 09-May-13 18:43:25

Yes they do but they're more likely to come in one. The question is why?

BasilBabyEater Thu 09-May-13 21:07:13

Nobody's forgotten that it was a woman who set the pram alight FGS.

This is in the context where murderers like her are outnumbered 10 to 1 by murderers who are male.

This is why we can't have a national debate about the misogyny at the heart of male violence against women - because people will insist on pointing to the tiny minority of women who are also violent as if that somehow negates the truth that the vast majority of violence is carried out by men against women.

If people had insisted on going on and on and on about black people who murder white people (and yes, there are some), the Stephen Lawrence enquiry would never have happened and the institutional nature of racism in the police and other institutions, would never have been acknowledged.

This "but they do it too!" crap serves to ensure that we never, ever make the connections we need to, to uncover the causes of the violence we live with.

Snazzynewyear Thu 09-May-13 21:15:19

I have been thinking for the past week that it is thoroughly depressing experience, as a woman and a feminist, following current events at the moment. And yes, I am tired of the 'but what about X the female murderer?' approach. Cher asked a while back on Twitter (she is great at pointing out women's rights issues, honestly) why no-one was acknowledging why school shootings were overwhelmingly a male crime and got flooded by people snapping 'what about the women in New Zealand that "I Don't Like Mondays" was written about?' as if one alternative to the norm negated her point entirely.

namechangeguy Thu 09-May-13 21:23:33

If men are somehow biologically programmed to commit acts of violence, then I guess there isn't much that can be done, short of genetic engineering.

If it because they are socialised to do it, due to 'the patriarchy' and a societal structure that allows them to get away with violent acts relatively unpunished, would we be able to detect this? While there are no truly equal societies, there are some that are much more advanced in gender equality than others. If we compare somewhere like Iceland with, say, India, do we see more balanced numbers of male and female criminals, especially for violent crime?

CountryBelle Thu 09-May-13 21:28:51

Have been noticing this and trying not to find myself growing wary of all men.

Sign the no more page 3 petition!!!

There is no doubt that pornography contributes to violence against women. It perpetuates the idea that women's sole purpose for existence is the gratification of men, and can therefore be treated however men see fit.

kim147 Thu 09-May-13 21:31:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoalDustWoman Thu 09-May-13 21:37:05

If men are more likely to be biologically programmed to be more violent than women, then women need be able to afford themselves greater protection. Tazers in baby girls' Bounty packs or something.

Or how about violence and aggression in males not being glorified from the cradle to the grave? And the potential for violence not being used by some non-actively violent men to threaten and control, instead of actual physical harm: As Marilyn French said "As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women."

CoalDustWoman Thu 09-May-13 21:38:14

I know all the anti-feminists and argue-the-tossers love a bit of Marilyn French smile

thecatfromjapan Thu 09-May-13 21:40:04

I do think a lot of the blame lies with a culture where a fair bit of it can be summed up as endorsing the view of women as things, rather than people with full subjectivity.

Was wondering a lot today about a culture that puts a lot of pressure on men, telling them that it is their duty, their birthright to succeed, be powerful, blah, blah, etc. Obviously, a lot of men rebel against that, and I suspect a lot of men get depressed when they can't live up to the contradictory messages (the way a lot of us women find it mentally quite damaging to be bombarded with messages about what "woman" "is".) Perhaps some men get angry, and take one (or a few) of the half-human women to take things out on/because it is their "right" to possess one????

I don't know. I'm not a man. I'm not a psychologist, or a professional thinker, or a cultural critic. It just strikes me that culture is powerful, and sometimes (often) seems out of our control, contrary to what we'd like (odd, when you think it's made by us) and often experienced as damaging and alienating. I say that as a woman. It strikes me that culture might be quite damaging and painful an experience for men too.

I realise that this speculation is quite facile. Probably only at the level of "Boys Keep Swinging" by David Bowie. But I offer you my fretting thoughts, to do with as you will: to prod, poke, experiment with, use (if only to accept that it is something else that is needed).

thecatfromjapan Thu 09-May-13 21:44:43

Quote from CoalDust: As Marilyn French said "As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women."

i didn't know it was Marilyn French who said that (first?). But I've come across it in other contexts. It has been haunting me this week.

The fact of male violence against women is such a major thing. I often wonder how much of our lives as individuals and as a culture is spent in denial about this.

This week has been a shocking assault on that denial. For m, anyway. And it has made me feel actual grief. Which is an odd emotion to feel perhaps? But makes me think about how much trauma there is embedded in living - in denial - with this fact.

<rambling now>

Smudging Thu 09-May-13 22:08:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsTerryPratchett Fri 10-May-13 01:54:43

Very good point thecatfromjapan. It always gets brought up that some women do abuse, some women do kill, some women do these things. But how much does the average man's life change based on these things? All the self defense classes, taxi sharing, walking each other home, guarding drinks, calling during dates to check if people are OK, code words, checking the doors, keeping phones and things by the bed, watching what we drink, wear, say, do and on and on.

This is not just the direct survivors of abuse, although I would argue that most women have experienced low-level abuse of some sort, this is most women. And, this is here, not in India or Africa, not during a war, not with different laws for men and women.

I have a two year old DD too. sad

iclaudius Fri 10-May-13 12:13:00

I argued with my dp about Thatcher only the week before as itsy string belief that the public outcry not of grief but of contempt was purely based on the fact she was a woman

Then the flooding of the news with horrific abuse after horrific abuse was conveniently ''mopped up' by Alex ferguson whose departure obliterated everything else .....

maranglow Sat 11-May-13 19:34:10

News from India about escalating violence against very young girls/children is utterly terrifying and sickening also. It all makes you want to avoid the news entirely. The question is 'what can be done?'

SingingSilver Sat 11-May-13 22:04:46

This is minor compared to the overt horrors that we can find in the news practically every day, but I was disappointed by the behaviour of Ronnie O'Sullivan during this years snooker world championship. He split with the mother of his two children a few years ago after having been caught cheating on her multiple times, the police had to remove him from the home after a report of dv, and they had court battles over access. (He actually asked for three day a week custody and got it, then complained she wouldn't have the children when he went off to tournaments.)

He seemed to use every press conference during the fortnight to have digs at her, actually saying he couldn't be happy while he had an ex trying to fuck him over every five minutes, threatening that he was going to tell everyone about her in his upcoming book, and saying self-pityingly that he had to play the tournament to be able to afford the school fees which were 3 months over due, yet he recently bought his new fiancee an expensive engagement ring from Harrods!

As I say, minor in terms of news, but dismaying to watch this manipulative man using a public platform to repeatedly verbally bash the mother of the two kids he says he loves so much, while the pundits looked on sympathetically. It was revolting.

Darkesteyes Sat 11-May-13 22:25:27

Singing Silver i agree. All i knew was that he and his wife had split till i read your post.
My friend has a crush on him but i dont know if she knows all this.

Darkesteyes Sat 11-May-13 22:27:47

It sounds like hes trying to control her.

SingingSilver Sat 11-May-13 22:36:06

I only know some of this because I had a crush for a while too, in spite of knowing he was probably a sexist pig (that infamous China press conference where he asked a female reporter if she'd like to 'give him a nosh') to my shame, but I was appalled by what I saw during the Worlds.

Darkesteyes Sat 11-May-13 22:41:11

BLOODY HELL. What an arse.

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