I am sorry if the above is a bit messy, or doesn't hang together quite as well as it did in the original. It's a very interesting - and civilised for that forum! - exchange of ideas. A lot of men find the concept of rape culture to be completely alien to their environment, and there is a lot of coughing, spluttering and 'not me, guv' type comments to begin with. A lot of the people on the above forum are young lads who like going out, partying, drinking and all that that leads to.
I think that with everyday sexism, plus stuff like the recent UK government adverts, these issues are seeping into the public consciousness.
Okay. This is a c&p of an exchange about rape culture from the discussion I mentioned. Each chapter is a different poster;
You'll have to help me out here - the articles I'm finding referring to the UK seem mainly to be along the lines of this one, which, to my mind, belittles the seriousness of the act of rape by effectively implying that the use of misogynistic language or misplaced sexual "banter" (for the want of a better word) is on par with raping someone. There may be a culture of misogyny amongst various groups in this country, but to label that as "rape culture" is incredibly misguided IMHO.
They're not saying it's on a par, just that it contributes to normalising and trivialising rape, turning into a humorous concept that isn't really all that serious. It's not just about the whole Unilad thing, there's a whole host of social phenomena.
I would disagree that it does normalise or trivialise rape though - it all depends on context. I'm not denying that, in certain circumstances, it isn't possibly a serious issue, but a reactionary approach where any hint of misogyny is taken as an indication that there is a "rape culture" is equally, if not more damaging to my mind. I'm definitely guilty of using misogynistic language in a jokey way. I can assure you I have no intention of raping someone as, like most well-balanced people, I realise it's a horrific thing to do to someone. In the same way, I have jokingly made threats of violence and murder in the past. Am I also trivialising that and contributing to a "murder culture", in your opinion?
Murder isn't the result of an institutional system of oppression, so no not really.
Does this just apply to sexism though? Or are we all guilty by association for the sins of our forefathers?
I'd argue that rape isn't either...The murder analogy was a small and weak dimension of my argument though - I still have serious problems with the use of the term "rape culture" as I think it's so overtly sensationalist and overblown that it actually detracts from a very serious issue.
As someone who lives in a country with a serious rape culture problem, can I just chime in here to defend YOPS? Saying there's a 'rape culture' isn't saying it's the mainstream culture, which is somehow what you're inferring. Talking about tolerating a rape culture is talking about a CONCEPT. Concepts are abstract ideas by definition. You can't normatise (is that even a word?) them across all peoples everywhere in a nation, or impose them on every cultural circumstance. But. In talking about a 'rape culture', there's a lot of things that go with it. In this thread, how often is 'behaving inappropriately' euphamismed instead of using a phrase like "sexual assault"? One's strong, clear, and descriptive of the violence & the impact it has. The other softens & aides the covering up - that's exactly the "rape culture" that's being referred to. Jimmy Carr's "What do 9 out of 10 people enjoy? Gang rape", similar. Quotes like "Don't look like trash, don't get drunk, because somebody will rape you" lays blame on the women, not on the perpetrators. All this is part of "rape culture". Rape culture isn't "lets go raping lads! Hooray!" It's a reflection on how we deal with the issues around rape and women and sexual violence, and I'd suggest that, as long as men are comfortable yelling "oi, show us your tits" at a complete stranger, rape culture is still pervasive.
Please do namechangeguy, I'd be interested.
I typed out my comment but didn't post. Just the process of typing it out was cathartic Sometimes you're made to feel so petty for not taking sexist or degrading comments as a joke.
I can't, sorry. It's a member-only/registration forum. I'll post up some of the interesting bits though - unless there is a rule against that in here. Does anyone know?
could you link ncd? I'm quite
nosy curious as to what they are saying
I am on a football fans website. As you can imagine, it's about 95 per cent male-dominated. There is a discussion currently running on there about this very project.
I have to say I am surprised at the sensible level of debate about the website and the experiences posted. It is raising awareness even in traditional male strongholds, which has to be good for everyone.
I've already read it, but yes it is worth posting, maybe post in chat as well? I know some MN's think we are .............. well I think they are intimidated by us.
Happy birthday to the ES project
The every day sexism project is a real achievement in showing the sort of low level sexism women experience every day. I realised that I've read it, referred to it on MN, but never actually posted my experiences on there myself. Perhaps I should.
apologies if this has already been posted, but there is a twitter chat going on right now to celebrate the first birthday of the project http://www.everydaysexism.com/
Came across the site via an article on the guardian.
I've been flicking through it most of the day; shocking, but sadly not too surprising...an excellent eye-opening site for someone like me though!
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