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This is why men who commit DV against their partners shouldn't be allowed access to their children

(294 Posts)
StewieGriffinsMom Sun 03-Mar-13 07:47:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 03-Mar-13 07:57:37


AbigailAdams Sun 03-Mar-13 08:23:22

Yes I saw that a couple of days ago. When will the authorities start seeing the correlation? How many children have to suffer it be murdered in the meantime? This is one of the many things that gives me the rage. So fucking preventable.

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 03-Mar-13 08:29:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YourHandInMyHand Sun 03-Mar-13 08:36:01

He got out of prison after serving time for DV, battled for custody, and the court decided he'd have them all year and his mum would have them in the summer and some of the holidays. WTF! angry shock

That poor family, they will never get over this. sad

AbigailAdams Sun 03-Mar-13 08:49:31

Is this one of the issues with no fault divorces, as they have in the US? Or is it the court system in general that is designed to perpetuate violence against women and children?

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 03-Mar-13 12:34:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AbigailAdams Sun 03-Mar-13 13:04:01

Yes it is on that wide a scale isn't it sad

BubblesOfBliss Sun 03-Mar-13 14:08:04

sad angry

HairyHandedTrucker Sun 03-Mar-13 16:29:13

I have to wonder if there is more to this story. the courts while biased against women in dv situations do tend to be biased towards mothers getting custody. I hate to speculate but is it possible the mother was abusive towards the children? also at their ages (12 and 9) I'd have thought they would have some say as to their living arrangments. I wonder if neither parent was really fit to parent. either way the children we're very badly let down by the system

Darkesteyes Sun 03-Mar-13 16:30:59

Jesus when are the police and court systems going to wake the fuck up.

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 03-Mar-13 16:49:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HairyHandedTrucker Sun 03-Mar-13 17:46:08

Been to google because that seemed wrong to me SGM, but it looks like when men make the effort to actually apply for custody they are equally likely to get it. I couldn't find any evidence to say that men who commit documented DV are likely to get custody though. I'm not saying it isn't true and I readily admit you are way more knowledgeable about this sort of thing than I am.. It does just seem wrong but then much of the court system is.

I just feel (and I am personally biased here) that in many cases of DV both parents are volatile. Not necessarily violent but volatile and it seemed to me that while the mother in this case may be a victim of this man's violence it doesn't also mean she wasn't the perpetrator of violence towards her children. This is obviously speculation on my part but I find it difficult to believe that a total psychopath was given primary custody of his children if the alternative was not less than ideal. Although one would hope that in the case where neither parent was fit that the child would be taken in to care. Also owing to the age of the children I would have thought the judge would have taken that in to consideration..but again I don't know.

Currently (in California) there is no specific age where the Court will consider the wishes of a child in deciding custody matters. Family Code Section 3042 requires the Court to consider and give due weight to a child's preference regarding custody if the child is of sufficient age and capacity to form an intelligent opinion on the issue. However, this code doesn't specify a certain age nor does it contain a standard percentage of weight for the Judge to place on child's wishes.

Plomdenume Sun 03-Mar-13 17:53:43

Trucker - Men who are violent towards their partners will very often be manipulative liars who are able to portray their partners as unable to care for their children. They will use a range of reasons, perhaps saying a woman who is quite reasonably depressed is too mentally ill to care for them - or a woman who has turned to alcohol to cope with the effects DV will be portrayed as an unstable alcoholic. The man will for years have been telling this woman and her children that she cannot cope and she is useless, so it will be very hard for her to argue otherwise to the courts and authorities.

Men whose partners leave them because of DV will also continue to use child contact as a way of controlling women, through threatening not tor return them, lying to and manipulating the children, or not turning up when he knows the woman has plans to do something.

fuzzywuzzy Sun 03-Mar-13 17:58:07

In the uk at least a violent drug addicted father will get equal access to the child, he has rights.

I've a friend who has experienced that, she was not violent and spent time in a refuge with her child.

Another father who was very violent to a friend who fled to a refuge had her whereabouts disclosed by the courts as the father had right to access to his children, during contact he has hit one of the children but the courts have ignored this & police have said as the incidents left no visible marks they can't do anything and the child is too young for her words to hold any weight.

It happens a lot.

Pan Sun 03-Mar-13 18:43:12

It is extraordinarily difficult to extrapolate from one v tragic event as reported, to provide that as a template for all cases. There are massive gaps in this record, tho' as a principle if a man has been violent to a child's mother there should be v large questions asked as to his fitness to care for a child (emotional resilience, toleration to conflict, control/anger issues, respect, problem-solving methods etc). Quite how a man with such a history gets to have custody over the majority of the year is unanswered, from that article - which reads a bit like a Daily Fail counter-part in Sacramento.

fuzzy some of your post is inconsistent with the accepted practices in the UK to do with DV, safeguarding and child care post separation. eg addresses of fleeing women are not disclosed for contact purposes, and police do not ime refuse to do anything as there is no outward sign of injury.

fuzzywuzzy Sun 03-Mar-13 19:00:10

Pan, this is what has happened to the women I know.

The second one was terrifying for the friend. She fled from the refuge with her children, apparently someone had turned up to serve papers on her demanding access to the children, it is allowed apparently.

Also the friend went straight to the police when her duaghter turned up from contact very distressed that her father had hit her, the police said they couldnt do anything as there were no visible marks and she was too young for her words to carry wieght, they also said he as a father was allowed to discipline. For a long time afterwards the child started wetting the bed and reufsing to go to contact as she insisted her daddy hit her, I took her once and it was horrendous she was so distressed.

The man in question had a criminal conviction for assaulting the friend during their marriage.

All I know is that it has happened.

AbigailAdams Sun 03-Mar-13 19:00:27

But SGM isn't extrapolating from one incident. Incidents like this happen everyday. There are patterns.

The problem is male violence. And the fact that systems are in place to ignore it, perpetuate it and normalised it, whilst isolating women and children who suffer from it.

Pan Sun 03-Mar-13 19:19:36

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Pan Sun 03-Mar-13 19:33:15

fwiw at my work place this week we are commencing a four-week course for young dads. Attendance isn't a choice. The overall message is that your relationship with your child is the most important one you will ever have. is a marker of how you manage your relationships with everyone else you meet.
I am (pretty) sure none of the participants will be starting off from a desire to butcher their offspring, as most dads in conflict with their ex-partners don't.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius Sun 03-Mar-13 19:47:09

Are there statistics to show how many men who abuse their spouses, then go on to abuse their children?

Pan Sun 03-Mar-13 19:51:51

Well, it's tricky SDT - abusing your female partner physically if the child is in the room, or one room separate, is classed as child abuse, in the UK. The numbers of immediate physical abuse of child linked with abuse of current spouse I don't know. It's made more trickier even by mums and dads having multiple parenting responsibilities in differing relationships. It's just..tricky to be accurate about. Anyone?

IlianaDupree Sun 03-Mar-13 20:51:54

Well then, the law needs to be made less "tricky" children need to be protected and violence within the home needs to be addressed

And rather than picking apart an op maybe it would be better to pick apart the case of how a child came to be murdered at the hands of someone who "supposedly" love him

As I survived an attempt by my stepfather to murder me I will not be reading the link

Maybe those who say they are addressing the issue need to listen to those who've lived it?

Dunno, maybe I'm thick?

Pan Sun 03-Mar-13 21:10:02

Iliana - it isn't the 'law' that we were picking over latterly - it was the recording of abuse instances. I do agree, if the law is tricky tho' it should be made plain - hurting children via adults/males problems should be a clear offence.

fwiw, I wasn't picking apart the OP - any cursory glance would see how it's absurdity unpicks itself, tbh.

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 03-Mar-13 21:19:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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