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Just saw this on Facebook

(160 Posts)
shrinkingnora Sat 26-Jan-13 15:18:15

Apologies if this has previously been discussed but a friend has just posted the following on Facebook and I wondered what others thought of it. I would like nice pithy response but am struggling to put it into words. It has really depressed me.


(PLS TAKE TIME TO READ THIS. It may save a life.) Click Share Button to share it on your Wall.

Rapists are predators. Period. Predators never let victims know when they will attack ... or that they literally "hunt" for a victim ... By following these tips, you can make your world a little safer.

It seems that a lot of attackers use some tactic to get away with violence. Not many people know how to take care of themselves when faced with such a situation. Everyone should read this especially each and every girl in this world.


A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

1] Understand that your hairstyle could benefit an attacker:
Ponytails and long hair are the number one styles rapists seek because long hair and ponytails are easy to grab. Women with short hair are not common targets. But there are exceptions.

2] The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

3] They also look for women using their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4] Be aware of your surroundings at all times:
The places women are abducted from / attacked at /targeted by attempted rapists are grocery store parking lots, office parking lots/garages, public restrooms. These men are predators, so view your surroundings carefully. If you are in a parking lot and feel someone is following you, start making noise - talk to yourself loudly, talk to an imaginary person, or pretend to talk on your cell phone. The louder the potential victim, the more the predator is apt to freeze.

5] Use your loudest voice if you have any doubts.
Remember, its better to be considered crazy, than to keep quiet to avoid weird looks.

6] Work on being assertive:
If somebody is giving you unwanted attention, tell them to back off. There is no need to be polite when somebody is making unwanted sexual advances.

7] The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

8] If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

9] These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

10] Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.


1] If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk: can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now that you've seen their faces and could identify them in a line- up, you lose appeal as a target.

2] If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

3] If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

4] If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can do it by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh - HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it really hurts.

5] After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause him a lot of
trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

6] When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked

7] Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, and go with your instincts. You may feel little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

8] If a rapist is in your car and is sitting in the passenger seat with a weapon to you, they will tell you to go somewhere where they are less likely to be witnessed. Whatever you do, don't follow their directions. Put on your seat belt, then drive into something stationary, like a dumpster or lamp post. The airbag and seat belt will keep you alive, and the crash will draw attention. It is better to be in a car accident than get raped and possibly killed. Stay calm and try to surprise the rapist.

9] Understand that Vans are the most common vehicles used in rapes. Rapists will park next to the driver's side and, as you are trying to get in, they will pull you into the van. If there is a van on the driver's side of your car, go in through the passenger's door. If there are vans on both sides, go back to where you were and get someone like a security guard to walk you to your car. Don't park any place that feels unsafe.

10] Practice being careful when going into your house or car because someone could easily push you in and lock the door behind you. Be aware of your surroundings; carry your keys ready in your hand and look around you before opening the door.

11] Keep personal information private. Don't advertise your info verbally or on the Internet. Also, be very wary of meeting up with anyone whom you meet on the Internet. There is never a good reason to meet up with a person whom you have never met in person, or who talks you into meeting-up when you are hesitant. If you think you must do so, bring someone else, preferably a friend who is older and meet the person in a public place.

12] Notice and leave identifying marks. A large bite mark on their face, punctured eyeball, deeply scratched leg, ripped out piercing etc. is easily identifiable, as are memorable tattoos, etc. Think kill. Go for weak spots like eyes (poke hard), nose (hard upward motion with the lower part of your open hand) genitals (grab really tightly and squeeze or punch hard) etc. to make sure the person's hands aren't free to punch or hold on to you and you can run for it. If you are in a place where you can't run, notice your surroundings and leave a mark on them if you can. Rapists have been caught because their victims left identifiable teeth marks, nail marks, or DNA in the cars or rooms where they were assaulted.


I know you are smart enough to know these pointers but there will be some, where you will go "hmm I must remember that" After reading, forward it to someone you care about, never hurts to be careful in
this crazy world we live in.

1. Tip from Tae Kwon Do: The elbow is the strongest point on your body. If you are close enough to use it, do it.

2. Learned this from a tourist guide to New Orleans: if a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM. Toss it away from you.... chances are that he is more interested in your wallet and/or purse than you and he will go for the wallet/purse. RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!

3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car: Kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won't see you but everybody else will. This has saved lives.

4. Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit (doing their checkbook, or making a list, etc. DON'T DO THIS! The predator will be watching you, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to get in on the passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you where to go. AS SOON AS YOU CLOSE the DOORS, LEAVE.

5. A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or parking garage:

a. Be aware: look around your car as someone may be hiding at the passenger side, peek into your car, inside the passenger side floor, and in the back seat. (DO THIS TOO BEFORE RIDING A TAXI CAB).

b. If you! U are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars.

c. Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard /policeman to walk you back out. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (And better paranoid than dead.)

6. ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot).

7. If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; and even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ. RUN!

8. As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP IT! It may get you raped, or killed. Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking, well educated man, who ALWAYS played on the sympathies of unsuspecting women. He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often asked "for help" into his vehicle or with his vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.

I'd like you to forward this to all the women you know. It may save a life. A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle. I was going to send this to the ladies only, but guys, if you love your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc., you may want to pass it onto them, as well.

Send this to any woman you know that may need to be reminded that the world we live in has a lot of crazies in it and it's better safe than sorry.

‘Helping hands are better than Praying Lips’ – give us your helping hand.

Take care.

MidnightMasquerader Sat 26-Jan-13 22:37:25

I think telling men "don't rape" won't work.

The men who don't rape already know rape is wrong, they don't need to be told.

The men who are capable of rape are going to be so evil/messed up they aren't exactly going to listen or care if they are told not to rape.

Well, needless to say, I think you're wrong. grin

A others have said, men who are capable of rape are not necessarily 'evil' and 'messed up' at all. Why would you think this?

Besides, why do you think telling men not to rape won't work? Maybe it won't work - though I doubt it - but why not at least try it out?

What's so awful about the idea of starting to repeatedly tell men not to rape, that you think it's not even worth the bother of doing at all?

Thus far in history, men have never been told repeatedly and en mass not to rape. And yet rape is a widespread problem...

Maybe, if men were told not to rape, and the 'men, please do not rape people' message was continually put out there in the way that the 'women, be careful and take care' message has been put out there, they (rapists) just might start to take it in. Even if it takes a generation for it to happen.

What's the worst thing that can happen if we start telling rapists not to rape? At worst, nothing happens and the status quo remains. A best, rapists stop raping.

Worth a shot, really, don't you think? Or is telling rapists not to rape that abhorrent to you?

Charlizee Sat 26-Jan-13 22:43:14

"Drunken consensual sex happens all the time."

Then I'm confused. I think the general feminist theory was a drunk person cannot give consent?

Charlizee Sat 26-Jan-13 22:45:53

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MidnightMasquerader Sat 26-Jan-13 22:48:54

Ah, now your intentions are starting to become clear.

You're not interested in solving the problem at all, are you?

Trekkie Sat 26-Jan-13 23:00:30

<snort> @ feminists wanting to do away with consensual sex.

BertieBotts Sat 26-Jan-13 23:09:17

A campaign saying simply "Don't rape" is ludicrous.

Ad campaigns which challenge rape myths ARE helpful because they seep into the general consciousness. They might not stop some rapists. They might make some potential rapists think. They might make a victim more likely to be believed. They might help her realise she was not in the wrong. These are all good things.

LilBlondePessimist Sat 26-Jan-13 23:12:42

Oh ffs. Of course women shouldn't need to know these things because men shouldn't rape women, but the fact is that they do, so unfortunately keeping safe is an essential part of life. My own mother was dragged into a lane while walking home alone at night and viciously raped and beaten by a random stranger. She was also repeatedly raped, beaten and violently abused by my father, her husband for two years so don't think for a minute that I don't understand that both can happen. But advising women on how to stay safe (and btw, when in the police, we were not allowed to wear a pony tail as it can easily be grabbed and used to pull you down -it's just common sense), is no more victim blaming than advising pensioners to ask for ID before opening their door or letting tradesmen etc into their house to safeguard against bogus callers and sneak in thiefs!

Surely any precautions we take to safeguard ourselves can only be a good thing - its not telling us to slink about afraid of our own shadows.

And if stranger rape is rare (again, being ex police, I can say with certainty that it isn't as rare as we would all hope), then surely being raped on a traffic island in rush hour must be almost unheard of.

StewieGriffinsMom Sat 26-Jan-13 23:19:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Charlizee Sat 26-Jan-13 23:21:52

I see noone has answered my question about what the case is if 2 equally drunk people have sex with each other.

shrinkingnora Sat 26-Jan-13 23:25:41

I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't understand the question. But in my experience, it's usually a bit crap wink

'So if two people (a man and a woman) are both equally drunk and have sex together no rape has been committed?' - honestly do you not see that this depends on consent?

BertieBotts Sat 26-Jan-13 23:27:49

I've answered it about 3 times!

LilBlondePessimist Sat 26-Jan-13 23:29:41

Apart from the fact that it has obviously been written by an American, and so the firearms advice is pretty irrelevant, the only actual 'bad' advice is the point about crashing your car.

Most of the rest of the points would mainly apply in the case of an opportunist attack.

I'm not looking for an argument but it is frustrating to see women advised that they shouldn't need to be aware of their surroundings or protect themselves, as this will somehow be seen as blaming them is they should be attacked. Like I said, would you deflect the same about advising oaps not to open their door to strangers or leave their purses on the hall table at the front door, or allow cold calling tradesmen into their house? Is that 'victim blaming' also?

Charlizee Sat 26-Jan-13 23:30:29

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LilBlondePessimist Sat 26-Jan-13 23:31:07

* deflect = feel, no idea why it came out as deflect.

LilBlondePessimist Sat 26-Jan-13 23:35:46

Charlizee, if someone is so drunk that they have no idea what their name is or where they are, and the other person has a higher level of awareness due to being less intoxicated (although can still be drunk), and takes advantage of the fact that the first person is extremely intoxicated to have sex with them then that is rape.

If two drunk people agree to have sex, then that is sex. The difference being that in the second scenario, an agreement to have sex has been made.

shrinkingnora Sat 26-Jan-13 23:41:44

Do they not say that 'people can be too drunk to give consent'? Genuine question.

BertieBotts Sat 26-Jan-13 23:49:17

It's not really hard. If someone is reacting positively, drunk or not, they're consenting. If they're acting neutrally either because they're too drunk to push you off or because they don't feel confident enough to say anything or they're too drunk to realise what's happening then they're not consenting.

You can't have two people BOTH acting neutrally or protesting against sex, because they'd just be lying there NOT HAVING SEX. Therefore if they're both initiating/reacting positively then it's consensual sex, it doesn't matter how drunk either of them are.

Trekkie Sun 27-Jan-13 00:48:40

People who say the list has good advice...

- Point one says don't have long hair if you are a woman. As long hair renders you vulnerable to rape. But, it says, short hair does not make you invulnerable to rape either.

On what planet is this useful advice?

Do people really think that if all women on the planet cut their hair short, rape would be more or less irradicated?

- Point two says that rapists look for clothing that they can remove quickly. Hmm OK. But also that "many of them carry scissors" - really? Sounds a bit made up to me, TBH. But still. If the scissors then what does it matter about easy removal? Does this mean clothing like a skintight pvc catsuit is safe as it is tricky to get off - while an ankle length skirt is the ultimate in female danger-wear?

And so on.

Thing is. Safety tips are general. Don't get paralytically drunk, wander around dangerous parts of town, not have any way of getting home etc are good advice for EVERYONE. Missives warning women that if they have hair longer than shoulder length they will be seen as PREY are utterly unhelpful in so many ways.

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Sun 27-Jan-13 01:04:49

As mentioned by other posters this 'article' has been doing the rounds for at least 10 YEARS. I can't stand this type of thing being circulated.

There are lots of credible places to go for information about how to protect yourself from rape. Facebook is not one of them.

FelicityWasCold Sun 27-Jan-13 01:09:46

I'm confused re. The ponytail thing.... Female police officers don't have to have short hair, so how would wearing it loose or in a bun stop someone grabbing it? Weird.

achillea Sun 27-Jan-13 01:18:29

I'll remember to look out for serial killers next time I park by a white van.

Jeez. It's so American. An english translation would be quite nice, slightly less dramatic perhaps.

achillea Sun 27-Jan-13 01:20:26

I must say I feel a little bit empowered by the fact that next time I'm put in the boot of a car I can put the lights out and wave my hand through for help.

LilBlondePessimist Sun 27-Jan-13 01:22:46

We have to have hair that is longer than chin length tied back, in a bun preferably, as a pony tail is undoubtedly easier to grab. It's not to say that mid length hair or buns can't be grabbed per se, but a pony tail can be used to control your movement, and is far easier to keep hold of.

Admittedly, on rereading, the point about clothing is probably not very helpful - yes, perps who aren't opportunist attackers have been known to carry scissors, but this is fortunately rarer, and knowing this doesn't allow anyone to prepare for it.

The points on self defense maneuvers are valid, as are making it clear that you have seen and could recognize the person if you saw them again. Often an opportunist attacker will flee at the first sign that their attack has been thwarted.

And again, while I am more than aware that you are more likely statistically to be sexually assaulted by someone known to you, I am of the belief that this should not stop anyone from being prepared to decent themselves or take precautions against such attacks.

Trekkie Sun 27-Jan-13 01:26:14

Point one doesn't talk about ponytails.
It talks about ponytails AND long hair
ie long hair
Saying, rapists like it, if you have long hair you are appealing to rapists. And having read that and now you know... and you choose not to cut your hair... well then what does that say about you...

It is an unpleasant scaremongering missive.

achillea Sun 27-Jan-13 01:31:38

I was attacked once and had no idea what to do but I was empowered by a surge of strength through the adrenalin and pushed him off, screamed and he ran off like a frightened mouse. He was opportunistic, followed me without me seeing him, and only grabbed me when he had the opportunity. But it was my lack of fear that saved me, not my manouevres.

Many women simply freeze regardless of their understanding of how to fight or get away. Perhaps knowledge and empowerment will help but I think our own fear is our biggest weakness.

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