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Joanna Lumley says don't go out and get drunk...

(199 Posts)
JustAHolyFool Thu 24-Jan-13 23:47:48 avoid being raped.

Daily Mail link, but it's all over twitter too.


Don't read the comments unless you fancy some RAAAAAGE.

edam Sun 27-Jan-13 20:39:41

Jeez, Charlizee, are you always this crass or only when you are speaking to a rape survivor?

Special, as Gobblers says, your analogy is daft and offensive. That's what my post pointed out. Idiotic to complain about others not understanding you - the problem was we understood you only too well.

AbigailAdams Sun 27-Jan-13 20:35:48

That is a really shitty think to say Charlizee. Hope you are proud of yourself.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sun 27-Jan-13 20:33:41

Charlizee, considering the rest of the content of GK's post, do you think that yours was a necessary post?

Charlizee Sun 27-Jan-13 20:25:30

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MidnightMasquerader Sun 27-Jan-13 19:49:42

You're not saying anything that other people on the thread haven't already come onto say.

The problem people have with it is that a). the advice only goes so far, b). may or may not work, c). only applies to a very small percentage of rape situations, and d). doesn't even begin to tackle the root of the problem.

As has already been said several times on this thread (and the other one).

GobblersKnob Sun 27-Jan-13 19:49:20

specialsubject, there is a very wide divide between comprhension and agreement.

It was the ANALOGY that was objected to, it is deeply crass.

The majority of burglaries are oportunistic, rape is not an oportunistic crime.

I have been pissed senseless many times, wandered home alone, 3am, small skirt, I was never raped because I never encountered a rapist.

Out for a walk with a friend, jeans, jumper, stone cold sober, broad daylight, raped, because the 'friend' I was with, was in fact a rapist.

specialsubject Sun 27-Jan-13 19:38:53

I knew some of you wouldn't like my post - but I did expect you at least to read and comprehend it.

I never said women were possessions. It's called an ANALOGY.

I never said dressing a certain way increased the likelihood of rape. I said that women who guzzle booze until they fall over are more vulnerable to attack. I did not say that the sight of them would turn men into rapists. The sight would turn most reasonable men's stomachs. (as it turns mine, I am revolted by binge-drunks of both genders)

I never mentioned chastity belts.

bored with the knee-jerk already.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sun 27-Jan-13 18:04:01

Not to mention that a chastity belt wouldn't prevent oral rape, if a woman wearing a chastity belt was unlucky enough to encounter a rapist.

edam Sun 27-Jan-13 18:01:55

Oh, the 'if you leave your door unlocked' comparison always makes me cringe. It's so horrible, comparing a woman's body to a possession. Something you'd expect from the Taliban, not from people in a Western democracy.

Unless the people who utter this tripe are seriously suggesting bringing back the chastity belt, it's also utter nonsense. You can't lock your vagina, short of said chastity belt.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sun 27-Jan-13 17:58:31

Special, do you believe that a man who would otherwise not have been a rapist would become one because he saw a semi-conscious woman in a gutter with her skirt ridden up?

specialsubject Sun 27-Jan-13 14:39:59

oh, and crime prevention has to be targeted at the victims. No point putting up banners saying 'burglars, please don't because it is bad', is there?

specialsubject Sun 27-Jan-13 14:38:48

no-one is going to like this...but what she actually appears to be saying is that if you get fall-over drunk and are in the gutter semi-conscious with your skirt up, you are more vulnerable to rape. That's true.

I can't see her saying that this makes it the fault of the victim if they are raped. I also can't see her saying that not doing this will mean you don't get raped.

I think she is being stupid to say that what is being worn makes a difference.

If you leave the front door unlocked, you are more vulnerable to burglary. Doesn't make the burglary allowable or excusable, or the fault of the victim.

PeggyCarter Sat 26-Jan-13 19:04:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Chubfuddler Sat 26-Jan-13 18:58:55

Nor necessarily to be in jail. Or to have been convicted of an offence, ever.

BeerTricksPotter Sat 26-Jan-13 18:58:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amillionyears Sat 26-Jan-13 18:55:50

No idea the link I posted was being discussed on here today.

Had assumed it was a few years old, eg 2006.

Dont know how reliable a source it is.
We can not expect rapists to necessarily tell anyone the truth.

PeggyCarter Sat 26-Jan-13 18:44:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeerTricksPotter Sat 26-Jan-13 18:38:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amillionyears Sat 26-Jan-13 18:32:48

Sugar. Meant to put a warning with the above

BeerTricksPotter Sat 26-Jan-13 18:31:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Chubfuddler Sat 26-Jan-13 18:31:15

I really lack the words to respond to that.

Short hair and an umbrella - the key to not getting raped. How wonderful.


amillionyears Sat 26-Jan-13 18:27:41

Found this.

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 26-Jan-13 17:51:41

"It may be inconvenient for your argument but avoiding the consumption of alcohol (and in particularly excessively so) will reduce the likelihood of you being a victim of violent crime, which does include rape and sexual assault."

So why do you think there are hardly any campaigns targeting men, advising them not to get drunk and rape people?

The Northumbria campaign you linked to, targets boys telling them to avoid getting into fights presumably, or accidents. It doesn't mention that they should avoid raping girls.

My question was: "are you content that the whole of public messaging around the issue of avoiding rape, is targeted at women, the potential victims, rather than at men, the potential perpetrators?"

By public messaging, I don't just mean police and home office campaigns; I mean the whole of public discourse, Joanna Lumley's contribution being only the latest.

Do you honestly believe that even half of public discourse is targeting the potential perpetrators of rape, rather than the victims?


I'm trying to understand where you are coming from. Are you arguing that it's OK to continue to tell women to restrict their lives, while continuing to allow men to get on with it, or are you arguing that we do in fact, regularly tell men to not get so drunk that they end up raping someone?

Chubfuddler Sat 26-Jan-13 17:38:03

Being involved in a reported, recorded, violent crime maybe. A stranger violent crime. What some would see as a "real" rape or a real assault.

The majority of women are not raped by strangers and the majority of women do not report it.

But if you're talking about what rape myths consider to be "real" rape then you are correct.

Just of fuck all relevance to the realities.

BeanieStats Sat 26-Jan-13 17:30:43

"You misread me Beanie. Alcohol consumption increases the risk of non-sexual violent crime. You are claiming a falsehood as fact."

No. For the second time, alcohol consumption dramatically increases your risk of being involvement (as in both being the IP and assailant) dramatically. In this violent crime is defined as "All violence against the person, sexual offences, and robbery".

The definitions and data backing this up is published here:

More alcohol specific number crunching is here:

The involvement of alcohol in violent crime is well known and well understood. It may be inconvenient for your argument but avoiding the consumption of alcohol (and in particularly excessively so) will reduce the likelihood of you being a victim of violent crime, which does include rape and sexual assault.

Sorry, but thems-the-facts.

More generally, I don't agree that the "public service" style advertising in the UK is directed towards victims and their behaviour. All police forces all under a major drive to reduce the incidence of alcohol related crime and all have conducted similar programs to this one

where the message is very clearly that excessive alcohol consumption puts you at risk of involvement with the police both as a victim and criminal.

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