Female sexuality is more "fluid"

[TotoroOnTheCatBus]

Female sexuality is more "fluid"

I've heard this said on many occasions and in my personal circumstances and in friend I know it to seem true. But what I wonder is, is this a response to women always being portrayed as sex objects on tv? Almost like women are a kind of fetish?

I like watching women in porn, I will always watch the women in f/m sex and prefer to watch two women. (no comments on the porn I have stopped now)

Now, when I am walking through town, I will always notice men. I will turn to check out a guy... not a woman. With the porn the women are almost like sex toys.. they look like fun to have sex with. I know how completely objectifying that statement sounds, I really do. That's why am trying to analyze the behavior. I can't imagine being married to a woman, or in a relationship with one. It wouldn't be a sexual relationship. It would be a flatmate with sex...does that make sense?

Now, beyond that I also wonder if our sexuality is actually much more fluid than men's or if really they are so held back by the patriarchy and not being perceived as gay that they can't even admit to themselves that they might be curious about trying to have sex with a man.

What do you think?

[ecclesvet]

I think patriarchy wants society to fit into a sexual and gender binary, when the reality is that it is a spectrum. Hardly anyone is 100% straight or gay, but patriarchy tries to pretend that it's the case. Those attitudes are gradually eroding, thank god.

I think society/patriarchy/gender roles/whatever are more flexible in allowing women are bit of experimentation than men, but only with the loophole that the experimentation is at least partly satisfying some straight male fantasy. Is the 'acceptance' of a Katy Perry-style drunken girl-on-girl kiss actually a significant acceptance of lesbian relationships? Or is it accepted because it gives straight men erections? Probably the latter, depressingly. But even then, that weak acceptance of girl-on-girl compares to the near zero-tolerance approach of guy-on-guy.

It is too late and I am too tired and I don't even know if that makes sense.

[ecclesvet]

Also, I don't think that women's sexuality is seen as fluid, but as rubber - you're allowed to experiment, as long as you eventually snap back to your senses and be a proper straight person.

[KRITIQ]

I think human sexuality is diverse in its feelings and expression. I don't accept that it is only "fluid" for women, and would wonder if that description comes from the need to justify the objectification and subjugation of women through sex (i.e. their sexuality is fluid, so it's "natural" for them to do things and have things done to them that would never be acceptable or "natural" for most men.)

Both women and men in our society ARE, however, conditioned to see women "naturally" as the objects of sex, not subjects. They "give" sex to other people. They have things "done to" them. Whether it's a man or men with a woman or two women together depicted in porn, the scene is designed for the male gaze. If women get turned on while watching, that's a "by product," and a beneficial one for the men who are the real targets of porn. That means those men will stand a greater chance of replicating what they see in porn - of being able to do to a real live woman what is depicted on screen. It's all for the pleasure and power of the man, not for the woman.

It is insightful that you say, Totoro, that you say, "with the porn, the women are almost like sex toys.. they look like fun to have sex with." Well, that's exactly what the makers of porn want those watching it to think. Companies spend billions marketing their products and services in just the same way.

In the case of vodka, zit cream or fast food, say, they want you to feel good about their product, want to induce you to buy it because it will make you feel good. They want to make money from selling you a good feeling.

In the case of porn, they want you to feel good about what you are seeing, want to induce you to keep clicking (which links to advertising revenue) and preferably, part with cash to consume more of their product. They want to make money from selling a good feeling as well.

But, of course that "good feeling" means getting across the message that sex as you see it in porn is normal, is natural, is good.

Zit cream makers don't want you to think how possible allergic reactions or how their chemicals damage the environment. Vodka distillers don't want you to think about the cost of excess drinking to society. Fast food purveyors don't want you to think of the risks their food pose to health or the suffering of battery farmed animals they use. If challenged on any of these things, they'll provide a swathe of "evidence" to show their products are perfectly safe (if used responsibly,) and people have a right to consume them if they want. Often, they'll be proactive in promoting how "safe" and "beneficial" their products are to counter any challenges that might arise.

It's no different from porn.

Alot of folks have bought the line from porn that "women are almost like sex toys . . . they look like fun to have sex with," which porn makers will insist is totally harmless. But, it doesn't take a genius to work out that this message reflects and reinforces widespread views about girls and women - views that are translated wider attitudes towards women, toward's women's sexuality, attitudes to justify the objectification of women, and attitudes that normalise sexual violence towards women.

[MsAnnTeak]

"Fast food purveyors don't want you to think of the risks their food pose to health or the suffering of battery farmed animals they use. If challenged on any of these things, they'll provide a swathe of "evidence" to show their products are perfectly safe (if used responsibly,) and people have a right to consume them if they want. Often, they'll be proactive in promoting how "safe" and "beneficial" their products are to counter any challenges that might arise."

Good analogy using the fast food. How many of us expect to ever have the picture of the burger that's advertised on the boards, or even think it's edible food ?