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Tories attack employees' rights including maternity rights

(45 Posts)
kim147 Mon 08-Oct-12 20:01:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MiniTheMinx Mon 08-Oct-12 20:22:41

Hi, Kim, Will have a read. The man is a prize sized?????insert expletive of choice. I'm yet the catch up on today's news from the conference.

I think it is a very clever and cynical ploy to strip workers of their rights but also to co-opt more people into the capitalist share holding class. No one with shares in a company is likely to strike but more than anything at the level of the individuals consciousness it undermines their capacity to think critically and undermines class consciousness. Very subtle, very clever, I'm certain most people devoid of critical thought will believe anything they want to. I haven't got over the explosion in people thinking they were middle class, after Blair told them they were!

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 08-Oct-12 21:13:31

Mini if the companies are small the issue is that the shares may take a long time to be worth anything. Many such companies may never be sold within the enployee's tenure. I think this change will lead to a lot of women choosing only to work for larger companies wherever they have the choice.

KRITIQ Mon 08-Oct-12 21:27:21

It's the ultimate "jam tomorrow" type con. When I heard him on the radio earlier, I wondered if it was a wind up rather than the actual Chancellor's words because it just seemed so outlandish!

The throw away soundbites about getting out of the recession can't be paid by the "wallets of the rich" alone (never mind that some of those got fatter as a result of the recession and responses to it . . .) and the proposal to axe housing benefit for all under 25's. Quite literally, you couldn't make it up.

Can some one tell me how many days it until the general election?

MoreBeta Mon 08-Oct-12 21:38:33

Good grief!

That is the worst idea I have ever heard out of a Tory Chancellor.

What is being proposed is employees take a tiny minority stakes in new small firms where there is a dominat shareholder (ie the founder and owner) and give up all their rights in return.

A tiny minority shareholding in a private firm which has no track record and where you have no power to influence management is basically utterly worthless.

ivykaty44 Mon 08-Oct-12 21:42:34

does remind me of this for some reason

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 08-Oct-12 21:53:00

YY morebeta.

MooncupGoddess Mon 08-Oct-12 21:54:36

What MoreBeta said. Also, if these small new companies go under (as many do) the employee is totally screwed - their shareholding is now worthless and they don't have any employee rights either.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 08-Oct-12 21:54:59

It's a stupid gimmick, and I say that as a Conservative.
I think (hope) they must know no-one will take it up, and are merely proposing it to be seen to be making the right noises on de-regulation. but the CBI is sceptical, I understand, and rightly so.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 08-Oct-12 22:01:05

KKK do you think no small companies will take the opportunity to offer this to new hires? I absolutely think they will , if It ever makes it to law, of course.

MiniTheMinx Mon 08-Oct-12 22:12:10

A few years ago I employed people for company I ran, I would have offered shares to avoid maternity rights. Stuck between a rock and, I lived in fear of happy news.

However why not just go the whole hog,all workers own the means of production. Now that would be a great thing.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 08-Oct-12 22:12:57

They may offer it; what I meant was that no-one will take them up on the offer.
the Conservatives for some reason always have a blind spot here. Security of employment is crucial if we wnat people to spend and invest, buy property - all those things the Tories are supposed to want them to do. i think in the current climate anyhting that makes people feel less secure in their jobs is total madness. As it is employers have a year before people acquire the right to claim unfair dismissal .. if that isn't long enough for them to work out if a person is up to the job then frankly their business has more problems than employment rights to deal with.

MooncupGoddess Mon 08-Oct-12 22:16:16

Quite, KKK. I wish more Tories understood this!

Mini, I'm sure I remember the Lib Dems going on about the joys of cooperatives in the run-up to the election... unsurprisingly, that one met a rapid death.

meditrina Mon 08-Oct-12 22:18:39

The maternity rights issue is tiny and unimportant part of it (as announced): it's simply giving longer notice of whether you intend to return to work afterwards. Also, the right to request flexible working doesn't amount to much at the level of the individual (as it can be so easily rejected), though I think this is detrimental to the bedding in of a newish concept.

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Mon 08-Oct-12 22:18:40

OK. This is a serious moment for the Tory party. Even my most rabid right wing Tory 'friend' (on FB) has basically just said wtf that's stupid re this scheme... If he thinks it's bad it really must be very shit.

I think it's just got to the point where we should ask the Queen to step in and dismiss the government (which she is legally entitled to do btw). It would cause a constitutional crisis but I think that's a small price to pay...

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 08-Oct-12 22:20:32

I think plenty do recognise that there has to be a balance. We should not emulate the sclerotic labour markets in parts of continental Europe. But people should know that if they work hard and have the right skills, they're not going to be out on their ear overnight. otherwise we'll just go back to the days when only those with capital behind them are able to buy homes or other assets, which is not what the Tory party should be about. we need to strike a balance between the interests of employers and employees, and bear in mind as well that part of a healthy labour market is people moving between jobs, which they won't do if by doing so they lose accrued employment rights.

MiniTheMinx Mon 08-Oct-12 22:23:10

Please Please Queenie, your people need you grin na, I think we should all just start walking from where we are towards Westminster.

ParrotTulip Mon 08-Oct-12 22:25:11

I'm scared. If this is the start where will it end.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 08-Oct-12 22:28:59

I'm afraid I'm cynical enough to think that this is a gimmick which they are not seriously expecting to take off to any signficant extent - it's about making the right noises on de-regulation, because any of the stuff that might really help employers (cut to NI contributions, say, or fuel duties or other business taxes) they haven't the nerve for.

WhoWhatWhereWhen Mon 08-Oct-12 22:29:27

No doubt this will be added to the list of interview questions, if you dont accept then no job offer, easy

Love the idea of a march on Westminister

purpleroses Mon 08-Oct-12 22:33:14

What happens to companies that already operate along these lines? (eg major accounting firms where people are partners rather than employees) Isn't this just a big tax dodge for them? Or am I missing something?

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 08-Oct-12 22:34:45

No, they won't be able to do that. if it's to be voluntary they'll have to put safeguards in the legislation against covert compulsion. So what this will turn into, actually, is yet another fertile field for employment claims. I suspect the CBI recognises this, hence the lukewarm response.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 08-Oct-12 22:45:33

KKK I didn't read it as voluntary for the potential employee - small companies can choose to make all new job offers on this basis.

ParrotTulip Mon 08-Oct-12 22:55:39

It's only voluntary for existing employees, but I guess they could make everyone reapply for their "new" jobs

MiniTheMinx Mon 08-Oct-12 23:00:30

""employee-owner" status would be optional for existing employees but existing companies and new startups could choose to offer only this type of contract for new hires, making it a compulsory condition of employment. Fast-track legislation will be introduced so firms can use the new type of contract from April 2013"

Only optional for the business.

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