Do you think that the patriarchy pits women against each other?

[toptramp]

I feel saddened by the amount of threads that bang on about how there is no sisterhood and how someone makes the point that they refuse to like someone just because they are also female. That's not really the point though is it? Of course there are some women who you will like and others who you will not. The point is looking out for women's rights surely?

I have also been reading a very sad thread in AIBU about a women who's 7 year old dd is being bullied by girls at school. It does seem that women are mean to each other. Do you think this is down to the media or a natural instinct to compete for a mate by putting other women down? When I read the relationships thread it dosn't seem that some men are worth competing for! I am not a man hater though. I think that we do ourselves a great disservice by being really mean to each other for no apparent reason. The men will pick and choose anyway.

Am I also the only person who disagrees with Caitlin Moran when she says that there is nothing wrong with bitching about other women's appearance? I mean I don't mind the sort of bitching if someone has genuinely pissed you off but bitching about someone's appearance is surely supporting the 'beauty myth' and the patriarchy? Discuss.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"It does seem that women are mean to each other."

Some. You see I think this, like a lot of human behaviour, goes beyond bald gender divisions, is nothing to do with competing for mates , and is far more dependent on individual character traits and the situation in question. I've met truly nasty people in all walks of life, all genders, all ages and there is no common reason for their behaviour that I can see beyond things like plain old bad manners, boredom or inadequacy. Some people clearly enjoy making others uncomfortable for the sake of it. Bullies, I've noticed, often start their careers in childhood. ... don't think they're competing for a mate.

Being a woman doesn't mean we automatically have to like, believe or support another woman any more than the converse is true. We've got free will and how we choose to use it is entirely up to us.

[sunshineandbooks]

Yes, undoubtedly. As long as power is maintained largely through patriarchal structures/culture, women will find that the biggest rewards are most often achieved by following the patriarchal rules. (The fact that these rules often result in the biggest problems for women as well don't put people off.) The women who buck the trend are still the exception that prove the rule, though as they increase in number, things are changing for the better.

The trouble is, while it's a valid, practical and sensible choice for individual women to play by patriarchal rules, it supports the patriarchy. When feminists point this out - often from a political analysis angle rather than a judgemental or critical one - women who follow the 'rules' tend to feel that they are being called 'silly women', 'handmaidens' or 'stepford wives', etc and they get very defensive about it. Likewise, feminists end up of being accused of hating men or being ott about political correctness.

I'd definitely say patriarchy encourages this. Divide and conquer and all that. And you don't have to be a misogynist to fall foul of it. Simply by living in a patriarchal culture you use institutions and participate in events that encourage that outlook - or at least normalise it so you don't even think about questioning it or think that those who do are weird.

Still haven't read Caitlin Moran, but if she said that about appearance I'd disagree with her. I might not like individual women and don't feel I have to simply because of the 'sisterhood'. However, if I think their treatment is unfair because of their gender, I will stick up for them. For example - Sarah Palin. I detest the woman and her politics, but the treatment she received by the press etc was no-holds-barred misogyny and that's unacceptable.

[bejeezus]

Oh, I missed this thread. I started 1 yesterday about 'sisterhood'. I have been so suprised that it is not more widely felt.

I agree with what sunshine says on the matter, and don't think I can add to it

I think resisting divide and conquer, is exactly why it is important, regardless of whether we actually like an individual women. It is something I want my dds to understand

Don't see how you can seperate your pitics from your day to day values

[bejeezus]

Pitics? politics