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Modern culture promotes and supports domestic abuse. Discuss.

(48 Posts)
toptramp Sun 09-Oct-11 22:30:53

The more I think about it; the more I feel it to be true.

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 09-Oct-11 22:43:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ecclesvet Sun 09-Oct-11 23:10:19

Do you have any examples? Outside of those t-shirts, I think any reference to (m-on-f) DV I've seen has been negative.

TheFidgetySheep Sun 09-Oct-11 23:13:03

Can you give examples?

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 09-Oct-11 23:18:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Sun 09-Oct-11 23:28:31

Beauty and the Beast... That whole film normalised abusive relationships.

KRITIQ Sun 09-Oct-11 23:31:13

Actually, it might be easier to list the aspects of modern culture that don't either promote or at least encourage a laissez faire attitude to domestic abuse. Yes, that list would be pretty short.

Tyr Sun 09-Oct-11 23:39:01

As opposed to old fashioned culture? Define modern culture. The phrase "smack my bitch up" is not from hip-hop. It was a Prodigy track that referred to Heroin but never let the facts stand in the way of another ill informed attempt at debate.
What complete and utter bollocks.

StewieGriffinsMom Mon 10-Oct-11 08:15:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Trills Mon 10-Oct-11 09:34:05

SGM you're talking about misogyny in general there rather than domestic abuse aren't you?

I think non-modern culture was much more set up for domestic abuse - people having very little say in who they married and no chance to leave. People now have the option to leave an abusive partnership without being ostracised by society. Women can have money of their own, which helps a lot.

StewieGriffinsMom Mon 10-Oct-11 10:00:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tyr Mon 10-Oct-11 10:59:28

There is no such thing as "child access guidelines" and the idea that Stephen Fry is an "ignorant git" is wonderful.........
So much to be offended by, isn't there? Music, T-shirts, comedians, pornography, non existent pieces of Family Law legislation, children's books.....
The most reactionary christian fundamentalists spend less time moaning.

Trills Mon 10-Oct-11 11:02:45

Of course it's not easy to "get up and leave" but compared to the past, modern culture makes it much easier, and is more accepting/helpful/supportive if you do.

higgle Mon 10-Oct-11 11:38:48

Re Cochrane (1840) 8 Dow PC 630, Coleridge J

"A woman W left her husband for no good reason, and H went after and brought her back forcibly. W then obtained a write of habeas corpus, but the judge subsequently discharged this and ordered that W be returned to H's custody. Quoting old law books, he said there could be no doubt that "the husband hath by law power and dominion over his wife and may keep her by force within the bounds of duty, and may beat her, but not in a violent or cruel manner". W could regain her freedom, if she wished, by cheerfully performing her part of the marriage contract. "

I think this remained the law until 1891. Matrimonial rape was not illegal ( arguably, the last aquittal being in 1932) until 1991. I think we have come a long way since then.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Mon 10-Oct-11 11:49:16

There's no such thing as child access guidlines? Really?

REALLY?

The courts don't put children and mothers at further risk of emotional abuse? Really?

aliceliddell Mon 10-Oct-11 11:59:49

The perpetrators of violence against women don't seem to have much of a struggle to get rehabilitated, do they? Andy Cole. Mike Tyson. Chris Brown.
Mel Gibson. Stan Colleymore. Et al. Doesn't give the impression that it puts them beyond the pale, does it?

KRITIQ Mon 10-Oct-11 12:00:30

Frankly, I don't think you can divorce the continued institutional sexism in our society from the prevalence of gender based violence, including domestic abuse.

If you are not prepared to accept that despite considerable political, economic and social gains for women, that institutionalised sexism still exists, then you'll probably see domestic abuse as something caused by "other factors," which can be dealt with by tinkering, rather than addressing the misogyny at the root of the problem.

Trills Mon 10-Oct-11 12:08:37

I am not questioning that we live in a society that is sexist, I am saying that describing it as MODERN culture that is to blame is rather silly when things are actually better than they were in the past.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Mon 10-Oct-11 12:14:44

Alice, the list goes on, doesn't it? (The Chris Brown fans, last time I checked, hated me on twitter - Something to do with me pointing out the irony in women loving a man who, rather famously, hated women.

I was also thinking of that Eminem song, Kim. That song was vile, talked about Mr Misogyny Mathers murdering his wife. And kids in my year at school, when it came out, loved the song.

The media has a lot to answer for, imo, re: violence against women. I've already stated my disdain for Tyler the Creator to my nephew, who classes as a fan. Tyler The Creator, fwiw, sings performs this vile ditty

aliceliddell Mon 10-Oct-11 12:15:36

But the progress has been over estimated. 20% of women will experience dv at some time; 2 women a week are killed in dv; 25% of women are raped/sexually assaulted, most often by partners or acquaintances. Has anything really changed? Agree w. KRITIQ, the culture generates gender based violence.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Mon 10-Oct-11 12:18:34

Trills, I wouldn't say it's to blame for the existence of VAW. I don't think many people would argue that we have it better than we did, lets say 30, 40 years ago, even. But there's still creases which prevent us getting things perfect. Misogyny still goes unchallenged, and amongst this misogyny lies victim blaming, jokes about VAW, slut-shaming, and misrepresentation of VAW in the media.

sunshineandbooks Mon 10-Oct-11 12:32:32

Undoubtedly modern culture is more helpful to women than our past culture, but that's not how I understood the thread title. I assumed the word 'modern' was in there simply because we're talking about women in the here and now.

In some ways, however, I think modern women have it just as hard. Because there are ways out for abused women now, they are castigated and/or dismissed if they do not take it - "it can't be that bad", "I've got no sympathy if she stays" etc, whereas in the past there was more of an unspoken community sympathy for women in these situations (if it was public knowledge) because they couldn't easily leave.

The trouble is that just beause there is an escape route, doesn't mean it's easy to take. We've got a whole unwritten culture actively encouraging women to put up and stay. It's a bit like education. Theoretically any child in the UK can, via the state education system, achieve a first-class degree and a 6-figure salary. How often does that happen in reality? There is a yawning chasm between what is possible and what is normal and likely to happen.

Meanwhile:
• Single parents continue to be vilified and are significantly more likely to experience poverty than mothers in relationships.

• More and more political emphasis is being put on the importance of the father and preventing family breakdown

• Legal aid is being cut for family law (and while it is being retained for cases where DV is a feature, that's no help if you cannot prove DV. Most women never report it and of those who do, they have usually been subjected to multiple assaults before ever filing their first formal complaint)

• Funding for refuges and DV charities is being cut

• Pop culture glamorises DV and mainstreams the objectification of women (so much so that even female MPs have their choice of clothing/cleavage commented on). The first step towards feeling entitled to abuse someone is to make that person less human. In other words, objectifying that person.

KRITIQ Mon 10-Oct-11 13:10:12

Good points sunshine and books. I also read the meaning of "modern culture" to mean "the here and now."

And, you cite many examples of current phenomenon which still either support the ongoing existence of Domestic Abuse or make it more difficult for women ti leave.

I think there are also things in modern society, particularly connected to technology, that may actually contribute to the perpetuation of Domestic Abuse - things that weren't there say 20 or 30 years ago.

For example, mobile phones, email, internet, social networking sites, etc. have made it easier for abusive men to exert control over women. I see evidence of this happening with young women all the time - boyfriends constantly texting and phoning to make sure they are where they should be and not doing what they don't want them to do. There seem to be more cases of women being "blackmailed" through use of compromising photos of them on Facebook and mobile phones are being used to film and exchange content that can be used to threaten or coerce women. The amount of information on each of us held out there and how accessible it is can make it much easier for an abuser to track down someone who's left him.

I think there is also the perception that the battle for equality has been won, that women are regarded as equals and as a result, don't need any "special measures" anymore, like women's refuge or rape counselling services. There seems to be more coverage in the media as well of "false rape claims" (rare, but inflated, or reporting non-convictions as "false claims," false claims of domestic abuse from women and the insistence that domestic abuse is just as bad if not worse for men than for women.

Just a few thoughts.

messyisthenewtidy Mon 10-Oct-11 13:12:40

I agree Sunshine, just to add to the last point re objectification of women - from the other side; the constant objectification of women has the effect of lowering some women's self-worth thus making it harder to leave a negative relationship.

sunshineandbooks Mon 10-Oct-11 13:19:10

Excellent points there KRITIQ. Definitely agree about technology being used to track/stalk/harass women in a way that just wouldn't have happened even 20 years ago.

And I see constant evidence of the idea that women have already achieved equality being used to grant men more rights and so undo each little step towards equality that women have achieved, e.g. car insurance, increase in women's pension age/contributions, men's access rights, etc. Ok these things are not specifically about DV, but as you say, it's all part of the message that equality means women no longer require special measures.

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