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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Have any of you seen the student loan repayment calculator on the BBC website?

20 replies

AbsDuWolef · 15/09/2011 14:59

here

I was looking at Legal (closest to my profession). As a woman, you "salary" goes up, then drops at about 32, goes up for a couple of years, drops again. If you put that you're "male", the salary goes up and by 32 is over £80k (highest for female is £62k).

How depressing.

OP posts:

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minipie · 15/09/2011 15:53

Bloody hell. I presume that must be based on some kind of statistics - if so, as you say, how depressing.

And have you noticed that the woman pays over £1000 more in total than the man on the same amount of loan?

AliceWyrld · 15/09/2011 18:21

Fuck me that is an interesting thing! It graphically shows you the pay gap. I wish it overlaid male over female, and didn't shift the thing on the uprighty (that is the technical term) axis.

Onemorning · 15/09/2011 20:30

There's a huge assumption that, as a woman, you'll spend time having babies.

Because that's the only thing ladies do, am I right?

fluffywhitekittens · 15/09/2011 21:40

Did you try the national average? That really is depressing.
Also interesting to see that the few I had a look at all the males started at a higher salary straight after uni...

kickassangel · 15/09/2011 21:51

I assume it's based on what salaries actually currently are - so facts about what people earn. however much we think men & women should be treated equally, if women take a year off to have a kid, then their salary will show a drop.

The only possible ways to prevent them from happening, are to a)not have kids or b)have them & return to work asap, before mat pay means you have a salary drop. otherwise, having kids does mean a drop in salary.

it's not so much an assumption that it's the only thing that women do, as an assumption that only women will take a pay cut for mat. leave.

if it shows men on higher starting salaries, now that is horrific!

kickassangel · 15/09/2011 21:55

have just looked at teachers - who are meant to be on a set scale, and men start at 4k MORE than women?? WHY??
if this is based on facts, that's disgusting. it means men are being given extra pay jsut for being men. ALL teachers should be on the same starting salary, and it's not recommended that they have any extra responsibility!!

or it could be that someone at the bbc made up some pretty graphics & silly numbers.

AbsDuWolef · 16/09/2011 09:20

It is based on current data - so this is reflective of what people actually earn. The teacher one is awful - at least with legal you start at the same, and then by 30s there's a difference.

Fucking hell.

The one hope I have is that this will change as I age, so that salaries are more equal.

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TheRealMBJ · 16/09/2011 09:25

Fucking hell . Big, big difference in health (with a five year degree course - didn't check others) too

TheRealMBJ · 16/09/2011 09:26

But even really early on, before 30 there starts to be a big pay gap. Before most doctors even consider having DC.

AliceWyrld · 16/09/2011 09:35

Kissassangel you missed out c) fight to stop that inequality from happening.

Women's skills that enable them to do a job do not disappear when they become mothers. I doubt that graph is showing maternity pay as it will be based on annual salary which doesn't alter. It is because of the whole myriad of expectation of what mothers do, that they are expected to take on childcare, are seen as 'less committed' (in reality they are often more so), often go part time. There is no reason that going part time should lead to a greater than pro-rata salary deduction, but more often than not it does.

And that all women are potential mothers, therefore also have these assumptions laden on them.

Men who take career breaks, for example to go traveling, do not experience the same impact on their income.

Re the teaching one specifically, I once checked this one out and it is because primary school teachers (majority women) tend to be paid less than secondary school teachers (more men), hence the difference. On paper they are on the same scale. In reality they are not.

There is an alternative of not having a culture that says you have to be 'full time' to be committed.

AbsDuWolef · 16/09/2011 10:25

Agree Alice. I have a colleague who decided to go travelling for a year. Off he went, came back into exactly the same job and carried on from there, nice career trajectory, no doubts as to his commitment etc. and whether or not he would return.

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karmakameleon · 16/09/2011 10:36

The thing I find most concerning about this is that the calculator is meant to be a tool to work out if your intended career will be worthwhile from a financial perspective once you account for the cost of your course. What better way of putting young women off educating themselves.

kickassangel · 17/09/2011 04:26

alice - yes, i agree that we should be trying to change things, but realistically, even the fighters will prob end up benefitting the people who come after them, rather than themselves.

teaching, nowadays, the starting salary, whatever the age of children etc, is meant to be the same, only if someone has a better degree, or other, relevant experience, or is given some kind of responsibility, would they start higher.

fwiw, 4 years' of youth work, was not considered 'relevant' when I entered teaching. I have a horrible feeling that having a dick would have been, and got me a higher salary.

I'd like to know if it does reflect actual salary for mat leave periods, rather than the 'what your salary would have been if you hadn't stayed home for longer than 6 weeks' salary. i can't understand how else it drops then goes back up again - surely that must be how the salary is cut back after x amount of weeks. so this chart shows you which careers are slightly better if you do take mat leave.

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/09/2011 20:02

Sorry but the Teacher one is wrong

PenguinArmy · 18/09/2011 22:13

I don't see why salary should go down, stagnate for ML (minus cost of living rises that some sectors get).

DH has just had a year off. He's gone back to work as I'm on Mat Leave (interviewers knew I was pg and that being the reason he was seeking work). He has gone in at same level as before (difference place though) and on 5K higher. No questions about whether he'll revert to being SAHD again when I return to work etc.

kickassangel · 18/09/2011 22:34

Because during the year that you're on mat leave you're paid less.

presumably, your dh didn't get paid during the year that he had off - so that would bring down the average pay of people in his sector for that age group?

but i'm assuming that that's how it's being calculated - it may not be!

PenguinArmy · 18/09/2011 22:45

but the dip doesn't look like it correlates just with ML. It seems longer.

Although I guess women take ML at different times so averages play out over longer time frames than individual circumstances.

PenguinArmy · 18/09/2011 22:47

also I guess more women go back part time for a while reducing their salary. What is the stats for women taking pay hits for returning to the same job, same hours though?

kickassangel · 18/09/2011 23:45

i have a feeling that it's a bit 'made up' - the teacher one is definitely a bit sus. still, it's scary if you look at age 50 & compare men & women!

fewcloudy · 18/09/2011 23:51

As posted above, the teacher one is wrong. The obvious corollary of that is that I have my doubts about the accuracy of the rest of the figures...

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