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"DSK Case Exposes Rifts Between Feminists"

(94 Posts)
DontCallMeFrothyDragon Fri 02-Sep-11 18:15:51

Lucy Wadham claims to be a feminist. So why is she dubbing those of us who believe DSK is guilty of rape as "Man-Haters"?

hmm

Any thoughts?

edd1337 Fri 02-Sep-11 18:27:09

innocent until proven guilty is the way it should be

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Fri 02-Sep-11 18:29:38

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

aliceliddell Fri 02-Sep-11 18:29:50

Another example of tired liberalism revealing a complete lack of understanding of the yawning gulf between libertarian critiques of puritanism and feminist critiques of rape apologists/MRA's. This Wadham person seems singularly ill-equipped to discuss feminists' response to the DSK rape case as she understands neither feminism nor rape.

edd1337 Fri 02-Sep-11 18:33:17

we don't even know if a rape took place. You can't just brand him a rapist on her say-so

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Fri 02-Sep-11 18:41:40

97% of people reporting a rape aren't lying.

So I believe her.

Most men accused of rape who deny it are lying.

So I don't believe him.

Simples

skrumle Fri 02-Sep-11 18:51:32

thoughts? what a load of crap...

and ed1337, i'll view him as a rapist on the basis of undisputed facts:
- they had sex
- they didn't know each other
- no money exchanged hands
- he was a powerful, rich hotel guest while she was a hotel maid

until someone can prove that she consented i will work on the basis of reasonable doubt - and i find it very unreasonable to believe that a hotel maid in the middle of her shift willingly decided to have sex with a man like him.

edd1337 Fri 02-Sep-11 18:57:46

probably lying to defame him. Or she got angry he wouldn't have an affair so she cries rape. Lots of things could have happened here

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Fri 02-Sep-11 18:59:22

Edd, what are you doing in the feminist section? hmm

skrumle Fri 02-Sep-11 18:59:47

i couldn't have picked DSK out of a line-up before this case blew up but we're supposed to believe that she knew exactly who he was??? and an "affair" with a guest who was supposed to have already checked out??

lots of things could have happened - let me know when you come up with a vaguely believable one...

aliceliddell Fri 02-Sep-11 19:00:22

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

edd1337 Fri 02-Sep-11 19:07:12

DontCallMeFrothyDragon I suppose while I may not consider myself a feminist I do agree with certain things feminists fight for. if that makes me a feminist so be it

aliceliddell doesn't work like that darling

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Fri 02-Sep-11 19:16:34

But we've heard nothing but misogyny come from you today. Please feel free to visit Feminism 101. I think you need it...

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Fri 02-Sep-11 19:17:07

And please refrain from calling women "darling". How deeply sexist of you.

dittany Fri 02-Sep-11 19:21:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NormaStanleyFletcher Fri 02-Sep-11 19:21:23

I find the whole thing deeply disturbing. The american justice system is basically based around how much you can pay for your legal team. The more you pay, the greater your chance of success. There is no subjudicy type legislation so they are free to smear the opposite party.

NormaStanleyFletcher Fri 02-Sep-11 19:21:51

Not read article yet btw - off to read now

smallwhitecat Fri 02-Sep-11 19:21:53

Message withdrawn

JosephineB Fri 02-Sep-11 19:26:30

Y'ou can't just brand him a rapist on her say-so'

And so you have branded her a liar based on...? And before you retort with 'she told lies before' - are so squeaky clean that you have never told a lie? Does that now mean you are an outlaw and that anyone can commit a crime against you forever more and the law will shrug its shoulders?

Besides which:

(a) there is other evidence to support her version of events

and

(b) it is not a legal requirement for a rape convistion to have anything more than the victim's word. Whilst it is true that few such cases result in a conviction, it is entirely possible for a man to be convicted - as you so dismissively put it - on the victims 'say-so'

smallwhitecat Fri 02-Sep-11 19:29:49

Message withdrawn

aliceliddell Fri 02-Sep-11 20:28:43

There is the teensy matter of the forensic evidence. His semen in the room where she said she spat it out versus his tale of having dinner with his daughter, for example.

Abra1d Fri 02-Sep-11 20:32:06

'- they had sex
- they didn't know each other
- no money exchanged hands
- he was a powerful, rich hotel guest while she was a hotel maid'

And that means it must be rape, and if you think otherwise you're not a real feminist?

edd1337 Fri 02-Sep-11 20:39:29

by skrumles logic, yes. I suppose its sexist to label women golddigers when divorce is I. her favour

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Fri 02-Sep-11 20:41:16

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

skrumle Fri 02-Sep-11 20:45:14

"And that means it must be rape, and if you think otherwise you're not a real feminist?"

did i say that??? you quoted fairly extensively and yet i don't see me saying that...

the full post was (with new highlights):
and ed1337, i'll view him as a rapist on the basis of undisputed facts:
- they had sex
- they didn't know each other
- no money exchanged hands
- he was a powerful, rich hotel guest while she was a hotel maid
until someone can prove that she consented i will work on the basis of reasonable doubt - and i find it very unreasonable to believe that a hotel maid in the middle of her shift willingly decided to have sex with a man like him.

if you choose to believe otherwise i don't know that i would necessarily think you not a real feminist but i probably would think you exceptionally naive/thick - does that make it clearer??

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