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Libya - will it be any better for women?

(37 Posts)
aliceliddell Mon 22-Aug-11 12:10:37

Watching the news; men with flags, men with fireworks, men in cars, men in streets, men climbing up things, men with vuvuzelas, men with guns. But absolutely no women. So when's their revolution, then?

chibi Mon 22-Aug-11 12:20:38

yes i played spot the woman too, couldn't find one

an alien watching tv could be forgiven for thinking that humans = men, and that women are a kind of a indulged pet kept by some of the humans


Corvax Mon 22-Aug-11 12:23:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ephiny Mon 22-Aug-11 12:24:38

Glad it wasn't just me - I was watching and thinking 'so, are there any women in Libya?'.

I remember thinking the same about television footage of the Iraq war. The reporters kept going on and on about 'the Iraqi people' celebrating in the streets, and seemed completely oblivious to the fact that it was in fact 'some Iraqi men', which is not the same thing!

It's hard to imagine the reverse situation - but imagine if it was all women out there? Would that go unremarked?

chibi Mon 22-Aug-11 12:28:52

we are the pets. no one was asking about libyan cats/parakeets/goldfish and their responses to this exciting news either

CRIKRI Mon 22-Aug-11 15:24:15

I doubt it will be better. Whatever else could be said about Libya under Gadaffi's rule, the Government and its infrastructures were relatively secular and "progressive" related to the position of women - similar to Iraq in fact. I would like to think that moves towards democracy would involve all citizens, but history has told us that particularly when the US and UK Governments intervene in other countries, ensuring the rights of women is so far at the bottom of the page of conditions that it tends to drop right off.

aliceliddell Mon 22-Aug-11 15:50:33

But CRIKRI how could you be so cynical? Don't you remember Hillary and Cherie out there in Afghanistan in their hijabs, telling us how women were the moral and political justification for the 'intervention'?hmm

CRIKRI Mon 22-Aug-11 15:53:20

Yes. I even remember then First Lady Laura Bush speaking with great emotion about the moral imperative of the war against the Taliban for the benefit of oppressed Afghan women.

Yep, of course it was and it's been SUCH a success, right?

Corvax Mon 22-Aug-11 18:00:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aliceliddell Mon 22-Aug-11 18:42:00

well spotted!

ThePosieParker Mon 22-Aug-11 19:13:05

But in any of these countries in conflict you never see any women, not even at funerals.....they're only good for talking about if they die or children die.

jennyviathewindow Mon 22-Aug-11 22:45:26

Well, if women want to be more visible, maybe they should grab an AK47 and join the frontline. In fact, why - in the spirit of feminism - don't some of you catch the next plane to Tripoli and help 'liberate' the city?

As far as I can recall, the origins of the Arab Spring came when a female official in Tunisia mistreated a street vendor who ended up setting himself on fire. Of course, maybe I'm just not looking at this through a 'feminist gaze'.

LlydogenFawr Mon 22-Aug-11 23:21:24

Wow Jenny. That's astonishingly naive / deliberately provocative opinion. Yes, indeed ladies, just get out there, it IS that easy.

GothAnneGeddes Tue 23-Aug-11 00:50:35

Get Al Jazeera English on and you'll see loads celebrating in the streets.

I am finding the OP a bit mealy mouthed though. I can imagine that, unless you're a Ghaddafi supporter, you are absolutely thrilled about being rid of a dictator. Living in a totalitarian state is absolutely headwrecking in every sense.

Allow the Libyan people their moment of joy. They know what hard work they have ahead of them.

Corvax Tue 23-Aug-11 09:15:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jennyviathewindow Tue 23-Aug-11 09:43:42

LlydogenFawr - What's naive about it?

aliceliddell Tue 23-Aug-11 18:22:49

Anyone else noticed how the many Jennies on the feministish threads never agree with any other feminists?

aliceliddell Tue 23-Aug-11 18:25:08

Fair enough Goth- but why are women always the bottom of the list? It is a fair point.

AliceWyrld Tue 23-Aug-11 18:49:53

Yes Alice, I've noticed that. Isn't it curious? hmm

I'm glad I'm not the only person that plays spot the women on the news. You can also play with with footage from the UK, alarmingly. Stuff about the City and employment is good for it.

Did you see someone did do a compilation a while back for the Arab Spring more generally? It was doing the rounds in the fem online world.

But yes I would like to see more of women in relation to the events. It would just take the journalist stepping away from the obvious, cos obviously women exist. And are doing things. And are impacted. And should have a voice.

jennyviathewindow Tue 23-Aug-11 18:50:06

Come on Alice, Obviously the JVtW derivations are all me. Plenty of people change their names on here so why is that an issue.

If someone had said that many muslim countries have appallingly patriarchal societies where women are hidden behind closed doors I'd have agreed; I've travelled much of North Africa and the Middle East. I agree with a great deal of posts on these pages and post a great deal of pro-feminist debate. Have you filtered all those out?

What I find a bit odd about this one is the undertone of conspiracy about the involvement of women in the revolution - as if media reports are editing them out. This is clearly not the case. If people are concerned that it is only men fighting on the front line of Tripoli then maybe they should do something about it and get out there themselves! Plenty of people travelled to Spain in the 30s to take part in the fight against fascism so why shouldn't they now?

Not one post prior to this one has noted that it is the predominently muslim attitudes towards a woman's place that underlies much of this and not the media. Why is that?

AliceWyrld Tue 23-Aug-11 18:53:33

Maybe cos that's not what we want to talk about Jenny. Maybe we would like to take the more interesting approach of discussing the media, rather than going down some hackneyed predictable muslim bashing. We don't have to talk about what you want you know Jenny. You don't get to pick what women talk about. Only an entitled person would think that they did.

ButHeNeverDid Tue 23-Aug-11 19:00:17

I would like to discuss what Jenny is talking about. Is it not allowed?

AliceWyrld Tue 23-Aug-11 19:03:04

Of course its allowed. So long as you don't want to dictate what others then post in response.

ButHeNeverDid Tue 23-Aug-11 19:18:06

I would be interested to hear the view of the Sky Journalist who covered the advance on Tripoli on Sunday night. It was just amazing. It was just her and loads of jubilant men.

Corvax Tue 23-Aug-11 19:19:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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