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anti feminist lesbian

(35 Posts)
rainbowtoenails Sat 30-Jul-11 16:44:42

I have friends who are and arent feminists and straight and gay friends and i accept peoples right to their own opinion.

BUT for some reason i am frustrated by my anti feminist lesbian friend. It's like i feel that she should be 'on our side' as ridiculous and unreasonable as that sounds. I know that i am effectively discriminating against her compared to straight friends (who i maybe have lower expectations of?).

Most of the men i know are more 'feministy' eg anti-porn, anti-sexist language than her.

I'm confused, im not usually this judgemental, honest!

floyjoy Sat 30-Jul-11 16:55:57

I sometimes think that there can be an expectation that members of groups marginalised by the mainstream will automatically be more politicised because they have lived with alienation, discrimination and prejudice. Not saying that applies to you, just generally. Don't know about your friend, though!

Hell is other people!

Thandeka Sat 30-Jul-11 17:08:51

interesting. I was tempted to start a thread on whether lesbians were more likely to be feminists or not but chickened out. But diversity is the spice of life and all that and your friend doesn't have to assign herself to any position just because of her sexual orientation- that's ridiculous (and having just posted that I realise why I chickened out of posting my thread title as felt I was being ridiculous too!)

filthyfunkproject Sat 30-Jul-11 17:22:38

I have a lesbian friend who isn't a feminist at all, in fact, she finds lesbian feminists very dull and predictable and tends to avoid them. Feminism is not a prerequisite for lesbianism.
People are free to define themselves in anyway they like.

MrsReasonable Sat 30-Jul-11 19:17:43

Could you expand on her 'anti'-feminism? Is it just that she doesn't want to label herself as a feminist, or that she inherently disagrees that women should be equal with men?

KRIKRI Sat 30-Jul-11 19:21:53

Internalised Oppression?

joaninha Sat 30-Jul-11 23:37:34

I have a lesbian friend who is way less feminist than me. My half thought out theory on it is that her relationships with men are platonic and therefore more relaxed. She doesn't feel dependent on them or their opinion or that she needs to defer to them as her friendships with them are devoid of that usual sexual dynamic.

Well that's my half arsed theory. It makes sense in my head!

ARepleteHmmSkiNun Sun 31-Jul-11 08:32:10

KRIKRI Sat 30-Jul-11 19:21:53
Internalised Oppression?

Externalised Happiness?

ARepleteHmmSkiNun Sun 31-Jul-11 08:40:42

That's simply not on filthyfunkproject
Surely all women and all men should, ideally be feminists as it is progressive and would be better for everyone?
Why let some lesbians have different ideas and beliefs?

filthyfunkproject Sat 30-Jul-11 17:22:38
I have a lesbian friend who isn't a feminist at all, in fact, she finds lesbian feminists very dull and predictable and tends to avoid them. Feminism is not a prerequisite for lesbianism.
People are free to define themselves in anyway they like

filthyfunkproject Sun 31-Jul-11 09:15:28

Are you seriously suggesting all lesbians have to be feminists? - That's like saying all people who support unions and workers rights have to be socialist.
she doesn't feel disadvantaged enough to get angry I suppose, and she's not overly political. She has lots of male friends but she's not sexually or emotionally hung up on them ( obviously) so they have little impact on her personal life. She'd rather talk about football and rugby tbh - which is fine by me.

And she's not 'anti-feminist' - she's just not obsessed with feminism like a lot of lesbians are - she's 50 so seen and heard it all before.

rainbowtoenails Sun 31-Jul-11 10:39:21

The thing is with my friend she isnt just not a feminist (neutral) she is practically anti-feminist although ive never heard her use that phase to self identify. She doesnt think sexism exists anymore. She uses porn and doesnt see anything wrong with it. She thinks pcness has gone too far and sexist language is ok. She doesnt see parenting issues as important because @he sees it as a lifestyle chioce, so ie if mums feel oppressed it is effectively their own fault. She denies that sexism in theedia has ANY impact on how people think. Talking to her is v frustrating! Ive never even come across a man who thinks all that.

rainbowtoenails Sun 31-Jul-11 10:42:03

Sorry, that should be 'she' and 'the media', pesky phone!

aliceliddell Sun 31-Jul-11 15:28:20

ffp - historically, and it could be argued, necessarily, there has been a strong link between worker's rights, unions and socialism. Can anyone envisage a situation where the connection was never made?

filthyfunkproject Sun 31-Jul-11 17:23:31

Alice - yes that's true, but you can be a Tory and support workers rights - likewise, you can be a socialist and disagree with strike action - I give you Ed Miliband.

Rainbow - wrt Political correctness gone too far, I'd have to agree with her. Basically, PC'ness is shorthand for - 'shut up and say only what we allow you to say - you are no longer free to have an opinion that isn't ok'd by the ruling elite - we will brainwash our most intelligent until they're all too scared to speak out, anyone who dares stray from the script will be called an ignorant bigot' - PC = order & control. They now control your minds.

And as for porn - lesbians like it ( I know this is true )

Sexism does exist in the media - she's wrong there.

Parenting - well yes, no one forces you to have kids - shut up and get on with it.

aliceliddell Sun 31-Jul-11 17:29:44

ffp - Ed Miliband? A socialist? <falls off chair laughing>

GothAnneGeddes Mon 01-Aug-11 02:42:09

Here's a very good and oft linked piece on parenting as not really a lifestyle choice: http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/2004/07/feminism-101.html

Also, if someone doesn't want to make allowances for people having children, they such not be able to use any services provided by anyone's children. They can live on a little island by themselves.

GothAnneGeddes Mon 01-Aug-11 03:01:05

*should, not *such

ARepleteHmmSkiNun Mon 01-Aug-11 08:36:01

rainbowtoenails - It sounds like your friend is suffering from maturity

filthyfunkproject Mon 01-Aug-11 08:54:24

Agree with that.

filthyfunkproject Mon 01-Aug-11 08:55:24

If only more people suffered from it - << sigh >>

sparky234 Mon 01-Aug-11 09:41:01

filthyfunkproject[and as for porn-lesbians like it(i know this to be true)

well no-this isnt true.i dont.

filthyfunkproject Mon 01-Aug-11 10:16:28

Just because you're sexually attracted to the same sex doesn't mean you have to be a feminist who hates porn. That's all I'm saying. I personally know lesbians who use porn - just like I know men who can take it or leave it.

I think the op's friend sounds like a good laugh actually - you know, a bit interesting - feminism isn't exactly the most exciting subject to be obsessed about is it -

sparky234 Mon 01-Aug-11 10:22:00

yep-i agree with the first paragraph-just pointing out that not all lesbians like porn-as youre post came across as otherwise.

filthyfunkproject Mon 01-Aug-11 10:43:22

I said 'lesbians like it' - not 'every single lesbian in the world likes it' - I don't know them all.
For me personally, being around PC feminists is like having the vicar constantly standing behind you - you can't relax.

sparky234 Mon 01-Aug-11 10:49:13

lol lol lol-i like this[......is like having the vicar]-oh im sure its not that bad filthy.

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