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Rape? I just don't know, long sorry

(54 Posts)
Treelined Fri 22-Jul-11 19:52:33

Hoping someone can get my thoughts together and help me.

A long time ago when I was 16 and a virgin, I saw a man at my place of work who I found very attractive. I bumped into him at a pub weeks later and this is what I need help with.

All I remember (I was very very drunk) is him talking to me and saying 'lets go outside'. We ended up about 5 minutes walk away, behind an industrial unit. I didn't know of its existence before this night. I remember lying down and feeling him doing something 'down there' and pain, but thats about it. Most of this I have remembered in flashback since. I got back to the pub somehow but don't remember how. The next morning the whole thing was a blur.

We bumped into each other at work again some days later and he asked me out on a date. We were supposed to go shopping. He drove round and round for ages then stopped in a deserted car park in a rural area. He started kissing me but I said 'come on lets go shopping' so he drove round again. We ended up at the same place and he said it was too late for the shops (it was mid afternoon hmm ). Anyway, he got on top of me and I said I didnt want to (mainly because we were in a car in broad daylight and I was a virgin (or so I thought)). He ignored this and although used no force just carried on. I didn't know where I was, had no way of getting home and just sort of lay there while he got on with it.

He was 23 and I was 16. He knew I was 16 because of the job I did at the time. He told me straight after that he had a girlfriend who was pregnant with twins (this was true I found out later).

I sat there and made sarcastic remarks about buying baby clothes. I didn't shout scream or yell. He drove me home.

Can any of you help me make sense of this? As a very inexperienced 16 year old I didn't realise for a long while after that he'd probably had sex with me on that first night when I was too drunk to know what the hell was going on. Maybe this explains why he acted how he did in the car, because he thought/knew we'd already had sex?

Why did I act so weirdly? I didn't tell anyone or cry. I did however, go on to sleep with 10 men that year. I felt it was going to happen anyway so I may as well lie there and let it. I'm very ashamed.

I did tell someone recently but they said 'Oh I thought you meant you'd been properly raped, you know by a stranger with a knife or something'. Was I raped? I have no bloody idea.

Hassled Fri 22-Jul-11 19:57:53

Well you had sex without your consent, so I'd say that yes, you were raped. I'm sorry.

As for why you reacted as you did - I don't know. I'm lucky that I've never been there (if lucky is the right word). But people react in all sorts of unnatural/unusual ways in times of extreme stress and panic - I think you had one of the "rooted to the spot" panic reactions.

Treelined Fri 22-Jul-11 20:00:33

I think, and this is deeply strange, that I felt I shouldnt offend him? So I didnt know how to say no properly, I said no but once that didn't seem to be enough I couldnt think what to do next. Screaming or shouting should have been top of my agenda but I couldnt 'make a fuss' I didnt want to cause a scene.

Now, 20 years on, I'd like to think I'd have smashed his face in, but back then I just didn't.

Treelined Fri 22-Jul-11 20:01:14

Sorry Hex, thank you. Good to hear other's thoughts.

DontCallMePeanut Fri 22-Jul-11 20:02:59

If you didn't consent, it's rape. I'm sorry to be so blunt about it.

The phrase "properly raped" sends chills down my spine. The number of women on these boards who have been raped by partners or whatever, yet that gets excused, etc. Rape is rape. It doesn't matter who the perpetrator is.

Even if you had had sex that first night, that doesn't serve as consent for any future sex. The fact you say you "didn't realise" you'd had sex suggests it wasn't consensual. you can't consent if you don't know what you're doing.

Don't be ashamed of youself. The sleeping with several men can be quite common after a rape. Especially with the viewpoint you suggest. I don't think any of your behaviour has been weird. Just your way of coping with it

<unMNetty Hugs>

Prolesworth Fri 22-Jul-11 20:07:05

Message withdrawn

Treelined Fri 22-Jul-11 20:16:55

God, I've just got tears come to my eyes, thank you for your kind comments.

The sleeping around randomly was just because I thought, they'll take it anyway, might as well give it. And I just lay there everytime. I met my first serious boyfriend about a year later, and stopped, have never been promiscuous since.

I certainly didn't know I'd had sex that first night, I remember him messing with my tights and pulling at my clothes, then pain. And I remember thinking 'why is he lying on me? What on earth is he doing??' then nothing really. I was so drunk I couldn't even walk straight I know that much. I was definitely too drunk to consent and definitely he would have known that and known that I was 7 years younger than him.

I'm very matter of fact when I talk about what happened usually. Very cold, Ive been told. Ever since it happened I've been cold really. Maybe I was just in shock. I wasn't frightened I know that, I just didnt want to happen what happened.

I do remember him telling me, in the car, just afterwards 'You didn't exactly shout no did you?' but I can't remember exactly what I'd said first to him.

louie74 Fri 22-Jul-11 20:23:02

"Maybe this explains why he acted how he did in the car, because he thought/knew we'd already had sex?"

No, he acted like this because he was ( and probably remains ) a complete bastard. Nothing to do with what might have happened previously.

aliceliddell Fri 22-Jul-11 20:25:24

<joins in with V signs>
I had very similar experience, very similar reactions. Agree with the others. Ignore any body who tries to define your experience in a way you're not totally comfortable with. Stick with those who give you complete, unqualified support. You have done nothing to be ashamed of. Look after yourself. You might find it helpful to phone RapeCrisis even if it was a long time ago, they will help you. Best wishes.

AnyFucker Fri 22-Jul-11 20:29:18

Love, you were taken advantage of

Some would not call it rape. I would.

I was date-raped, I didn't fight, I didn't scream. I tried to make it "normal" because I was embarassed, ashamed and just wasn't strong enough at the time to call it "rape"

but it was

you know what though ?

I saw my rapist a few days later. I agreed to another date. I wanted to "normalise" it. If everything was "nice" then I couldn't have been raped, could I ?

I feebly tried to tell him how he had made me feel. He just laughed and said "what are you talking about?" I didn't say anything after that.

You should forgive yourself for not making more of such an attack, but do not ever diminish what happened to you.

another thing ?

if I was raped tomorrow, I would not report it.

All the very best to you x

Dylthan Fri 22-Jul-11 20:31:17

I had an experiance very similar to yours I was also 16 but only slightly drunk.

I was in the RAF and left a party early a guy I had been talking to followed me back to my room and asked if he could borrow a tea bag because he'd run out I said no problem and let him in.

Next thing I knew he was on top of me I said no but he pinned me down with his arms and leg I tried to push him off but the more I pushed the more he held me down in the end I just lay there. I didn't scream or anything and I don't know why because there were people in the rooms next door who would of heard.

After that night I got drunk a lot and slept with a lot of men it seemed like that was what you were supposed to do and like you I felt like they would just have sex with me whether I said no or not.

I got very depressed and thought about taking my life on more than one occasion until I met my wonderful dh who I really do feel saved me.

I live with the shame everyday and it makes me feel sick I have tried to bury it and thought that if I just pretend it didn't happen then it will go away but it doesn't.

I feel I was raped but I don't think anyone will believe me if I told them because be was a man that was liked by everyone and I didn't fight him off enough. I know I couldn't physically get him off because I tried all I could but I should of screamed.

Why didn't I scream?

Prolesworth Fri 22-Jul-11 20:34:52

Message withdrawn

louie74 Fri 22-Jul-11 20:37:09

Dylthan - the shame isn't yours. Please please don't carry it any longer. You didn't scream because you made a decision that you were safer by not doing so. All you did was protect yourself - that's nothing to be ashamed of. By taking the blame, you excuse him. He doesn't deserve anything from you so lay the blame where it belongs - entirely with him.

Prolesworth Fri 22-Jul-11 20:42:16

Message withdrawn

Treelined Fri 22-Jul-11 20:42:41

Jesus, Dylthan, my heart honestly aches for you, that is horrible. You poor, poor thing. There is nothing you should feel shame for, absolutely nothing angry

At least with my experience we were actually on a 'date', there was a 'reason' for what happened to happen, as opposed to some utter cunt saying they wanted to borrow a teabag angry. God I almost wrote then, that it was to be expected almost in my case ... date with man - forced sex. My head is obviously screwed.

AnyF - thank you for sharing that. There is something I didn't mention in my op because I didn't feel brave enough to, but you sharing that has made me feel like I should be more honest. I saw mine again too. I so wanted my first time to have been with my 'boyfriend' in a 'proper relationship' that when he saw me again at work (I was a waitress he was a customer at the bar) and asked me on 'another date' hmm I said yes. Same thing happened, only this time he drove me to a lay by and climbed on top of me. And I let him.

Feel sick just writing that. I just had to make the whole thing normal and special. That makes me shudder. But I couldnt cope with the fact that I'd lost my virginity against my will in a car (or an industrial estate, who knows) sad

AnyFucker Fri 22-Jul-11 20:49:54

TL, I never told anyone what he did to me

As far as I know, he still has his Good-Guy status

I tried to convince myself nothing had changed by carrying on as normal.

AnyFucker Fri 22-Jul-11 20:51:49

MN is the only "person" I ever told about this.

I have had sooooo much support from brilliant women since I did.

Treelined Fri 22-Jul-11 20:54:17

I have to go watch tv with DH but wanted to say thank you so much for sharing. I will be back tomorrow, I'd like to get advice on how to ensure my dds don't feel the same social constraints to 'not make a fuss/shout/upset anyone/make a scene' etc that I did, if they ever find themselves in a similar position.

WyrdMother Fri 22-Jul-11 21:08:24

Treelined Hun, you were raped. You were too drunk to give informed consent, by the sounds of it didn't give consent at all and the man had the advantage of you in that 1. You were drunk, 2. You were way younger, hardly beyond childhood, 3. He was almost certainly hugely stronger than you, especially in an intoxicated state.

"Maybe this explains why he acted how he did in the car, because he thought/knew we'd already had sex?" Probably the excuse he used to justify himself, he was wrong though, he had absolutely no right whatsoever.

He was and undoubtably still is a complete waste of skin, a worthless addition to the human race desperate to feel big, strong and macho. His bitching about his pregnant girlfriend was telling, poor didums was probably feeling trapped and powerless and wanted to pass the feeling on.

"Why did I act so weirdly? I didn't tell anyone or cry. Because you'd been through a trauma and one that even at your young age you knew many people would not understand perhaps because you didn't understand it?

"I did however, go on to sleep with 10 men that year." A friend of mine who suffered a date rape at an older age (she was already sexually active) lost all sexual confidence, was celebate for years and eventually hired a male escort for some bondage to try and regain some control. Perhaps since you felt you had no control you tried to get it back by choosing to sleep with these men? It might help to talk to someone perhaps at Rape Crisis the website is here

Words fail me for the person who made the "Properly raped" comment, they don't know what they're talking about.

You shouldn't feel ashamed but so many women in your position do, I hope you get the help you need. Good luck (if that's not too ridiculous a thing to say).

Dylthan Fri 22-Jul-11 21:09:56

Thank you for your kind words although I don't feel I deserve them.

I've never told anyone else in rl dh knows something happened but not the details.

Treelined I have a dd now and would also like to know what I can do to try and make sure this won't happen to her because it scares me that it might.

AnyFucker Fri 22-Jul-11 21:13:19

I fear for my dd, 15, too

she is a "people-pleaser" < scared >

BertieBotts Fri 22-Jul-11 21:20:19

There was a brilliant article linked to on here a while back, which went through the whole not wanting to offend thing, even though in black and white it looks ludicrous, wanting to avoid offending a rapist, the article explains really well why it comes so naturally to most of us to try not to offend even in such an awful situation, and why you shouldn't feel stupid, or guilty, or like you invited it, or any other horrible thing. It wasn't your fault and it never could have been.

I'm explaining this really badly. I'll try and find it but if anyone knows the article I'm referring to, I think it might be helpful to the OP.

I'm so sorry to hear of your experience.

AnyFucker Fri 22-Jul-11 21:29:26

there is this one

BertieBotts Fri 22-Jul-11 21:38:17

That's similar, AnyFucker, but not the one I was thinking of. It was more "Why doesn't she just say no?" rather than "Why doesn't she just fight back?"

I'll keep looking though. I think I had it bookmarked but on my old computer.

ChristinedePizan Fri 22-Jul-11 21:40:56

There is something very weird that happens to women sometimes when they are in a compromising situation. I was at a house after a party a few years back where everyone was sitting in the kitchen chatting and drinking. I was very drunk and I went to the loo and when I came back a bloke who'd been sitting near me was standing in the corridor. He kissed me and then pushed me into another room and fucked me. At the time I didn't consider it rape because I didn't do or say anything. I just lay there. I could have called out but I didn't.

Talking to other women on here has made me realise it was. Afterwards he just got off and went back into the other room. And after a few minutes, so did I. I didn't speak to him and everything just carried on as if that hadn't happened.

I feel very guilty about the whole experience which is stupid isn't it?

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