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(45 Posts)
LeninGrad Tue 12-Jul-11 11:06:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Catitainahatita Tue 12-Jul-11 12:39:09

No time to say anything: apart From what is Gareth Pierce doing here?
I have always had the upmost brespect for her. But to argue that being penetrated while asleep can be consentual is unacceptable.
She should stock to the criticisms of the arrest warrant and any procedural anomalies and not get onto discussions of this kind.

LeninGrad Tue 12-Jul-11 12:57:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SybilBeddows Tue 12-Jul-11 13:06:02

and what has happened to Helena Kennedy? Is the team she was part of no longer involved?

I read a little of that. So he penetrated while sleep - but that she still consented? How is that then - when she was asleep? Surely that is rape even before you get into the conversation when she woke up. It's all pretty awful really.

I am really hoping Helena Kennedy has stepped away.

aliceliddell Tue 12-Jul-11 13:09:50

God, it's so fucking depressing. This is the left? Hypocritical bastards.

LeninGrad Tue 12-Jul-11 14:24:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeninGrad Tue 12-Jul-11 15:06:14

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StewieGriffinsMom Tue 12-Jul-11 18:06:22

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Prolesworth Tue 12-Jul-11 18:14:07

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SybilBeddows Tue 12-Jul-11 18:15:58

any chance of you ranting on here, for those of us not on Twitter?

Prolesworth Tue 12-Jul-11 18:41:25

Message withdrawn

aliceliddell Tue 12-Jul-11 18:50:40

Well, this is the kind of bollox expected from the judicial system. I still have a gullible and misplaced hope that one day a lefty boy socialist male comrade will take an unambiguous position to defend women against male sexual violence. Even if those women aren't wearing corsets. As for Helena K....

aliceliddell Tue 12-Jul-11 19:37:43

Prolesworth - is that your Twitter name?

Prolesworth Tue 12-Jul-11 19:40:36

Message withdrawn

Kladdkaka Wed 13-Jul-11 09:21:29

You are aware aren't you that the statement the woman gave to the police said she was 'sömnig' which means sleepy not asleep (sover)? And that both women were happy with their relations with him afterwards, socialising and bragging to friends, and it only became a problem when they found out about about each other? And that there is movement here (in Sweden), of which the prosecutor and women's lawyer are (allegedly) part of, to push the boundaries of rape to include withdrawal of consent after the fact if the woman feels betrayed in any way eg, finds out he has another woman on the go?

LeninGrad Wed 13-Jul-11 09:32:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kladdkaka Wed 13-Jul-11 09:47:16

Yeah, I agree he's a nob. He also a bit creepy, so I'm not entirely sure why any woman would consent in the first place.

I just deeply concerned for the real victims of rape who will suffer the consequences of this kind of action. Sweden already has one of the highest rape rates in the world and one of the lowest conviction rates. The rape laws and processes here are messed up beyond belief. The courts here are quite open about the fact that a nice, blond, blue eyed swede is highly unlikely to be convicted of rape, whereas a foreigner (especially a dark skinned one) is highly unlikely to get off. Nothing to do with evidence, everything to do with racial perceptions. They know it's happening, they know it's wrong, but nothing seems to be happening to address it.

There is also an increasing belief here in Sweden that the feminist pendulum has swung so far in favour of women that men are always in the wrong. One of the big political parties even wants men to pay higher rates of tax to compensate women for previous centuries of male domination.

LeninGrad Wed 13-Jul-11 09:55:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kladdkaka Wed 13-Jul-11 10:12:59

So do I. I'm just not sure that this is the right case to show that. When she found out that he wasn't using a condom, she didn't try to stop the sex, she consented to it continuing. It worries me what message this is sending out. That when he started having sex it was rape but partway through it stopped being rape because she consented. Are we possibly inadvertantly saying that no means no but not always as sometimes it can mean yes.

karmakameleon Wed 13-Jul-11 10:16:05

This is why it's so important to seek positive consent rather than just relying on the absence of a "no". I hate this idea that women should have to "stop the sex", why can't the onus be on men to seek positive and freely given consent?

LeninGrad Wed 13-Jul-11 10:19:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeninGrad Wed 13-Jul-11 10:21:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kladdkaka Wed 13-Jul-11 10:29:50

He's creepy that what.

(To be honest about the Sweden thing. I think I'd be tempted to leave if I were ever accused of a crime here. The things I've learnt about the justice system since moving here frightens the life out of me. Things we take for granted in the UK don't exist here. I can't wait until circumstances change and we can return to civilisation.)

aliceliddell Wed 13-Jul-11 11:16:03

Maybe Gareth and Helena will kiss later. But, sadly, this will probably be in celebration of the bastard's acquittal

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