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Misogynistic Daily Fail writer, Liz Jones, strikes again.

(19 Posts)
DontCallMePeanut Tue 14-Jun-11 08:18:29

I fail to call her a journalist anymore. It's an insult to the good journalists out there...

"The slut walkers, with their black clothes and gothic make-up, are well educated and fiercely super-confident young women raised by middle-class mothers to expect everything they want from life. They take no prisoners.

They will glide through life, bossing their husbands and bosses, doing exactly as they please.

But the brown, over-manicured young women who weren’t on yesterday’s march, who were half a mile away schlepping in and out of Primark and
H&M, might as well have been a million miles away. This demonstration was preaching to the converted.

We all know rape is bad, don’t we? But the other women, the working-class women who have only been taught to shop till they drop will, if not be raped, put up with low-paid jobs and expectations, domestic abuse, bad relationships, debt.

Because what these women are lacking is self-belief, a quality the slut walkers have in droves. There is no sisterhood between these two groups, none.

The super-confident sluts should have been demonstrating outside Topshop, and marching down Oxford Street.

Now that would have been something."

Just where the hell do we start? Of course, the middle classes never have bad relationships, debt, get raped or stuck in an abusive relationship... I'm actually lost for words....

If you want to read the hideous article, it's here

onclefestere Tue 14-Jun-11 09:44:58

eeuw. What a stupid article.This bit is pretty vicious too "I found it telling that so many of the women yesterday said they had also marched against the Iraq War and the invasion of Afghanistan."
I love the way she generalises about people; middle class women are too articulate to be attacked, working class women are too stupid to know their rights. Lazy, vicious rubbish.

InmaculadaConcepcion Tue 14-Jun-11 10:03:09

They will glide through life, bossing their husbands and bosses, doing exactly as they please.

hmm

Granted, many middle class women are more likely to have advantages in terms of income, education etc. compared to many working class women.

Can't see how that grants them automatic immunity from being buried in sackfuls of patriarchal shit, though.

aStarInStrangeways Tue 14-Jun-11 10:04:50

Actual lol at Liz Jones cussing other women for being conditioned to shop till they drop though!

Ormirian Tue 14-Jun-11 10:10:11

"There is no sisterhood between these two groups, none"

That is a vile thing to say. It's not lack of sisterhood - why assume the ones on the march don't care about the downtrodden Primark shoppers hmm? It's a bloody good thing that some women are self-confident and determined. Isn't it? confused Would she rather that we all submitted to the status quo, and to 'be raped, put up with low-paid jobs and expectations, domestic abuse, bad relationships, debt'?

I don't even see the point of the article TBH. It can't all be fixed instantly so let's not start? Weird.

thaigreencurry Tue 14-Jun-11 10:22:25

I don't really get the point of the article.

Perhaps the Pankhurst women shouldn't have bothered, after all their lives were far removed from the average poor woman of the time.

There is an issue in that lots of women seem to have accepted the increasing objectification of women and seem to support it. I was villified on FB when I suggested that Hooters in Bristol was a concern. I was told that I take life far too seriously when I said that I didn't think that a playboy themed bedroom was a good idea for my pre-teen niece.

I still can't see where Liz Jones is coming from with her criticism of the slut-walkers. Maybe I'm missing the point.

Bennifer Tue 14-Jun-11 10:26:27

It's not exactly clear what Liz is writing, but I think she has a point. I've written on this before, and although I class myself a feminist, I think class is a far, far more significant factor in determining the course of your life than gender is.

freshprincess Tue 14-Jun-11 10:30:01

Liz Jones is a fool with a made up bf.
Who takes any notice of what she says?

sprogger Tue 14-Jun-11 10:40:55

How can Liz tell who's middle class and who's not? Does she actually think there aren't any fake-tanned middle class girls shopping in Primark?

LRDTheFeministDragon Tue 14-Jun-11 11:34:54

How patronizing! Yes, Liz, working class women just shop in Primark (and I am gla you managed a pop at the aesthetics of fake tan there too), they couldn't possibly be expected to 'get' stuff like women's rights ....

What an idiot that woman is.

InmaculadaConcepcion Tue 14-Jun-11 11:50:15

Yep, I think working glass women and middle class women alike can feel equal here - equally patronised.

Good job, Liz.

Trills Tue 14-Jun-11 11:58:10

You want www.istyosty.com - it means you can link to the Mail without it registering as getting extra hits.

Link to article in OP

Ormirian Tue 14-Jun-11 12:01:08

I am MC, self-confident and educated. I shop in Primark from time to time. Because sadly being MC, self-confident and educated does not always equate to having money to chuck about hmm

loiner45 Tue 14-Jun-11 12:14:45

Bennifer

I can see what you mean - but don't think I agree, class is something much easier to change and manipulate than gender. I still see myself as WC but to all outward appearances am MC because of education (first in my family to go to university) who I married <yuk, but true>, where I live and how my voice is now <quote> "posh". Social mobility is much harder than it used to be IMO, but still happens.

My MC dds OTOH have to learn to cope with being female and what that means in terms of glass ceilings, expectations etc, just as I did and just as an UC woman will have to.

sunshineandbooks Tue 14-Jun-11 12:17:56

Actually, I think she has a point. Please let me explain before you all flame me. wink

Her article was biased, patronising and classist, but she's right about one thing: Self belief and an understanding of where you are in society are key to achieving female equality. How do we achieve that when the women (of all classes) who have fallen for the patriarchal spin so often see feminism as something completely removed from their lives with nothing to offer?

vesuvia Tue 14-Jun-11 12:44:36

It is impossible for Jones to know the social background and life circumstances of all the Slutwalk participants. She is speculating to fit her agenda and to fill blank space in a tabloid and collect her pay cheque.

Jones wrote "There is no sisterhood between these two groups, none".

Well, not if Liz Jones has anything to do with it, there won't be.

"Divide and Rule" is a classic oppressive tactic used by the patriarchy against women for centuries. Jones is doing her best to perpetuate that.

The title of Jones's article is "Class is the real problem, sisters - not slutty clothes".

Class is the real problem, is it? Not sex inequality? Wave a magic wand and transform all people into members of the same economic and social class, all with plenty of money and education. In that supposedly "classless" utopia still under patriarchy, women will still be worse off than men. Under the patriarchy, women will always be the "sex class". Men will still be defined by men as "the norm", women will still be defined by men as "the other"/inferior.

It's not only "underclass" and working-class girls and women who are suffering abuse and discrimination. Every day, richer females are also murdered, raped, abused etc. because they are female.

DontCallMePeanut Wed 15-Jun-11 00:04:58

I've written on this before, and although I class myself a feminist, I think class is a far, far more significant factor in determining the course of your life than gender is.
Whilst I agree to an extent, surely personal life experiences are the biggest influence? A woman is statistically more likely to experience domestic violence if she has witnessed or experienced abuse in childhood or adolescence. Now, as we know, abuse isn't limited to the working classes.
Likewise, violence against women does not take place because of someone's class. It take place becaise of their gender. Being a woman makes you a lot more likely to be a victim of rape or abuse.

Social mobility is much harder than it used to be IMO, but still happens.
I actually beg to differ. Yes, social mobility happens, but I'd say it is more possible than it previously was. It was only 200 years ago, no, 150 years ago, that education was limited to the upper and middle class males. It was less than a hundred years ago that a woman could study at university, yet would not receive a degree, a decision based solely on her gender. It's only through recent years that women and the working class alike have been able to access not only higher education, but improved job prospects. It still takes a lot of work, but social mobility is becoming more accessible.

How can Liz tell who's middle class and who's not? Does she actually think there aren't any fake-tanned middle class girls shopping in Primark? Have you not noticed? Us working class girls have the sign of the devil tattooed on our foreheads. grin

Liz Jones is a fool with a made up bf. Who takes any notice of what she says? Firstly, oh dear... She's found a new fantasy victim man? Oh shiiiit. Secondly, I agree, BUT unfortunately, some people are easily influenced by media. Just remember the DM inspired statuses on fb? (if you have an account, just scan fb, and you'll see what I mean...)

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 15-Jun-11 08:40:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DontCallMePeanut Wed 15-Jun-11 10:23:05

Oh dear, I posted the link on facebook, and a friend has commented saying she can't see anything wrong with what she said... How many new arseholes do I rip her? grin

(She's not British, lives in Australia, and uses the fact she's never read anything by Ms Jones as an excuse)

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