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Tony Porter and the 'Man Box'

(23 Posts)
LoremIpsum Fri 10-Dec-10 00:26:38

Not sure if anyone has posted this here, but I thought Tony Porter's TED speech on the issues with raising boys to be men as defined by what he calls 'the man box' was interesting and worth sharing. .html

BitOfFun Fri 10-Dec-10 00:40:35

I don't know what more to say about this, but I cried my eyes out watching it.

Sakura Fri 10-Dec-10 01:04:05

After your review BoF, I had to watch it.
He's a very moving and powerful speaker.

BitOfFun Fri 10-Dec-10 01:11:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sakura Fri 10-Dec-10 01:17:52

Frightening that a man with such integrity as he posesses, didn't have the guts to say "this is wrong". Well... he was twelve, so can be forgiven, but I always wonder about gang-rape, I always wonder about wars, where women are mass-raped. I always think: "surely, there was one guy who thought "This is wrong". Where are they?
It's reassuring to see that some men believe it's wrong, but depressing to see that even the good men don't do anything to stop it, and are complicit.

LoremIpsum Fri 10-Dec-10 01:23:18

My sons are right at the beginning of puberty and recently had a talk at school that covered all kinds of things, but nothing, absolutely nothing, about the macho trap or about relationships and respect.

I'm saving this speech to show them. If we don't talk openly about these kinds of situations, then little will change.

MrManager Fri 10-Dec-10 01:26:09

LoremIpsum that's a parent's job, not the schools. 'Beginning of puberty' sounds like primary school - I don't think that's an age where they need to learn about relationships in a serious way.

LoremIpsum Fri 10-Dec-10 01:30:00

And you'll notice that I'm planning to do the job, MrManager. Not that I agree with you, by the way. It's your opinion that it's a parent's job, not a fact.

Sakura Fri 10-Dec-10 01:30:52

I have now hit the "Ignore" button and can no longer read MrManager's posts

MrManager Fri 10-Dec-10 01:35:29

I did see that. But you sounded like the school should have included that stuff, and I disagree.

Sakura, oh well [shrugs]. Seems odd to tell me though - do... do you have a little crush on me?

Sakura Fri 10-Dec-10 01:36:33

Wrong thread to start trifling over who should be doing this important work.
This is a thread about a brave, lone man who has the guts to make a stand against violence against women. Please do not trivialise it by splitting hairs.

Sakura Fri 10-Dec-10 01:38:10

LoremIpsmum I agree with you BTW. Violence against women is encouraged by culture. Parents (read: mothers) do not have the power to fight against an entire cultural backdrop of violence against women being portrayed as acceptable. The schools need to be on board, as do other public institutions

MrManager Fri 10-Dec-10 01:42:26

I'm not splitting hairs, I'm continuing the discussion - that's the point of a thread.

He sounds good, but like I talked about on that other thread most men don't have to be told not to be violent towards or rape women.

Where is violence towards women seen as acceptable? Certainly not where I went to school - very strong 'you don't hit girls' attitude with both staff and children.

P.S. where is the 'ignore' option?

TheButterflyEffect Fri 10-Dec-10 02:08:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Prolesworth Sat 11-Dec-10 22:18:06

Message withdrawn

LoremIpsum Sat 11-Dec-10 23:10:20

I know it's a bit late, but I just realised I messed up the link.

Just in case anyone's still interested, here it is again:

Tony Porter

JoBettany Sat 11-Dec-10 23:46:44

Thank you LoremIpsum.

Reality Sun 12-Dec-10 00:03:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

walkinginaWUKTERwonderland Sun 12-Dec-10 00:38:27

I do feel sorry for men too. It must be exhausting and lonely to keep up that act.

BeenBeta Mon 13-Dec-10 09:41:50

An interesting and I have to say also a slightly uncomfortable talk for me to listen to in a couple of places.

It was somewhat a talk from a particular time, place, culture and context, as all personal experiences are of course, but I recognise a lot of what was said in the way my own father was/is with me. I try hard not to be that way with my own two boys and I like to think I am not bothered by the 'be a man' thing but just occassionally I do come up against the edge of the box which is in my head and I feel conflicted.

Yesterday was a good example. My DSs were in a Judo competition. DS2 won a couple of fights but DS1 lost all of his. I was proud of DS2 and not bothered by DS1 losing. DS1 is just not a fighter as he is not an aggressive person. Which is fine by me. I dont need my sons to be good fighters or to push other people around.

However, when we got home DS1 started crying. Saying he wished he had won just one fight and that he couldn't even beat a 9 yr old (he is 10). I felt conflicted. I wanted to hold him and say it was OK and that fighting in competitions was not the only way to enjoy Judo - which I did do. However, I felt bad that privately I also fleetingly thought 'yes I wish you had beaten one of the other kids and that you weren't crying about it'.

I tried to be logical with him. I told him he didnt have to do competitions if he didnt want to and he could just focus on getting his belts and maybe become a coach in later life. I really did mean that but I also felt bad for another fleeting private thought that maybe 'I am letting you duck out of something you should face up to (as a man)'.

MrManager Mon 13-Dec-10 10:31:00

santasakura Mon 13-Dec-10 10:39:36

BeenBeta Don't worry, I find myself gravitating to fairy pink stuff for my 4 year old dd confused I'm fixated on her starting ballet, even though I've just read a book about how ballet pointe is a type of sado-masochism

Must. Break. Out. Of. The. Script

Ormirian Mon 13-Dec-10 10:46:51

That is a brilliant speech. So neccessary. I think I might show it to DS1.

I find it terrifying and tragic the way that society likes to take little children and makes them into 'men' in this way. All the potential and hope turned sour.

I know women who collude too. The woman who used to work for DH who would weep when her latest BF treated her like shit and hit her, but sneered at men who were kind and gentle because they were wimps. It poisons everyone.

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