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Is there a place for feminism nowadays?

(8 Posts)
NotAnotherBrick Sun 05-Dec-10 16:47:00

Well, I think there is, but my brother insists there isn't, and, when I last saw him, I was too tired to formulate a coherent argument to persuade him otherwise!

So...why is there a need for feminism nowadays and how do you argue that need with misguided loved ones?

Prolesworth Sun 05-Dec-10 16:48:07

Message withdrawn

NotAnotherBrick Sun 05-Dec-10 17:02:55

Yeah, I said those, in a kind of vague, daft, tired way.

I said "Why are there posters saying 'don't nick things' but none saying 'don't rape women'?" He said it's because not raping women is a given! And then just said 'that doesn't mean we need feminism' when I pointed out that nicking things and breaking into people's property should be a given too!

He said 'there are plenty of women doing my job, but not many want to do it - should they not employ men so that there are equal numbers?' - I just sat wide-eyed at him thinking it's just about having lots of women in previously male-dominated industries.

I need to read that book, I think!

He wants to know why those things are issues - just saying they are doesn't really cut it with him hmm And I'm no good at thinking on my feet at the moment!

vesuvia Sun 05-Dec-10 17:17:10

NotAnotherBrick, if your brother agrees that "not raping women is a given", it can't be too big a step for him to think all the other issues where women's rights should be enforced or improved should also be a given.

Unfortunately, they aren't a given.

That is why feminism is needed - to put such issues on the political agenda, and keep them there, until they are given.

lollipopshoes Sun 05-Dec-10 17:19:31

As long as there is pay inequality, as long as there is specific violence against women, as long as there is misogyny, as long as there is any kind of gap between the sexes, there is a place for feminism.

NotAnotherBrick Sun 05-Dec-10 17:21:06

He doesn't believe that they aren't 'a given' IYSWIM. He thinks women already are completely equal to men - I need a good, comprehensive but simple argument to get him to understand that we really do still need feminism.

HerBeatitude Sun 05-Dec-10 21:54:31

The double standard - slut vs stud
The pay gap
1 in 4 women subjected to DV
1 in 4 women victims of sexual assault or rape
Most rapes never reported
Of rapes which are reported, 94% non-conviction rate even though false allegations stand at around 3%.
Most women poorer in old age than most men - society designed to keep women poor
Women still get sacked for being pregnant
Double standard in behaviour - men are assertive, women are aggressive. Or women not assertive enough, men modest.
Most women in couples still do most of the housework even if both people work fulltime - men in couples have on average 15 hours per week more leisure time than women.
The beauty standard - women expected to wear make up and silly shoes, men expected to be hideously ugly and comfortable, but still able to shag much more beautiful women. See Jack Nicholson and every woman he's ever made a film with.
Porn - dehumanise women, show them loving violence and gettnig off on being humiliated.

That's just for starters

FunnysInTheGarden Sun 05-Dec-10 22:00:23

there is always a place for feminism. Women get made redundant from professional careers because they have just had babies, are pregnant, or may be about to become pregnant.

Many mothers I have come across have been subjected to discriminatory treatment due to their sex.

Your brother is talking out of his ill informed arse!

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