If you are a Radical Feminist and want to see the overthrowing of Patriarchy...

[Jazzicatz]

then in real terms how will we achieve this?

[BelleDameSansMerci]

Does one have to be a radical feminist to want the "overthrow" of patriarchy? Can't I just be a normal feminist with a desire for equality?

[Jazzicatz]

Of course, but radical feminism is more political and looks to overthrow patriarchy, rather than making the status quo more equal through salary for example as in the case of liberal feminists.

[BelleDameSansMerci]

Fair point. What do you think it will take because, in all honesty, I don't see how it can be done without extreme violence (which I would never condone).

[wukter]

Ok long post went poof. Briefly I don't think violence would work as you'd still have a patriarchy of the mind. It's the old Attitudes Need To Change thing.
So I'm stumped

[BelleDameSansMerci]

dittany and wukter as usual you manage to articulate some sort of nebulous thought I have lurking about what passes for a brain these days. I couldn't find the right way to say that I thought "overthrow" would take ages, etc. Couldn't see a way to do it quickly.

I wonder sometimes if I should stay off this topic or at least think before I type!

[sethstarkaddersmum]

LOL Kerry.
Why don't you join us? You don't have to wear dungarees, you can be a secret agent if you like.

[Jazzicatz]

I sadly think if we are waiting for it to be done through peaceful means then we will never see patriarchy overthrown. I have to say I believe Marx is right in that its about conflict and we need revolution to overthrow the oppressor (obviously Marx was talking class issues, but I think the same applies)

[anastaisia]

In a feminist revolution - what would need to be done to prevent it simply being a case of different people moving to the top of the pile but there still being huge imbalances of power?

[Jazzicatz]

That's why I think this type of discussion needs to be had. How would this new world look, how would it be run? If we are talking about a political overthrowing of patriarchy, what would our brave new world look like?

[sethstarkaddersmum]

the modern feminist movement meets in lovely coffeeshops with squishy armchairs, actually, Kerry.
it's a useful camouflage technique. They think we are just a bunch of mums meeting to talk about cakes.

[Bue]

Can I just say I think it's brilliant that you can come on MN and one of the topics is, "Right, how are we going to overthrow the patriarchy?"

Unfortunately it won't be overthrown in my lifetime. I think it can only be made more acceptable to live within. (I know, I'm such a downer. I'll leave now.)

[wukter]

No, it probably won't be overthrown, as such. But maybe it'll shift by degrees so it's not a patriarchy any more.

Maybe mothers will change the world in the way we bring up our Dc, eventually.

To borrow Mary Robinson's phrase 'the hand that shook the cradle, shook the system'

(Mary Robinson = Irish feminist, first female president of ireland in 1990, and now UN Human rights type person) That was her victory slogan in 1990.
dashing off again, sorry

[wukter]

i thin k the patriarchy would be overthrown a lot quicker if the revolutionaries' husbands did a bit more childcare, any way bye!

[vesuvia]

KerryMumbles wrote "there are matriarchies in the world though aren't there?"

Where?

[Lio]

I think talking about sexism is a good start, otherwise people don't even notice it's happening. For example, dh's mum talks to me, not dh, about what to get the children for Christmas. So does his brother's wife. Why is this normal?

[TheFeministParent]

I would love to see child bearing people of all ages treated the same, for starters. child bearing seems to be the biggest stumbling block in a society constructed by men.

[Lio]

Yes, maybe if there were another phrase that didn't make it woman-centric, i.e. avoiding the 'bearing' bit, thereby acknowledging that men become parents too.

[TheFeministParent]

Child rearing/raising?

[Lio]

Precisely. When even the language we used is skewed against women it's not helpful.