"What about the men that get raped?"

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Whilst talking about Reclaim the Night to a friend, a male asked what it was about I explained, he then questioned "what about all the men that get raped and are victims of domestic violence??" I explained to him that I think that only 3% of men are victims and the stats are roughly the same for Dv (i'm not a 100% that these stats).

He then said "I thought you believed men and women are equal therefore Reclaim should be about men victims too"

I didn't really know what to say to this so can someone give me some guidence

Thanks

[Lougle]

I agree with him.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

point out that men are welcome to organise their own marches and other events to raise awareness about male rape and domestic violence victims but you happen to be marching for women.

and tell him he is a cheeky fucker for telling women how to run their liberation campaign and that it is a bit rich to expect women to do all the work of sorting out male rape given that it is men that do the raping.

[scurryfunge]

Men can offer support by joining the London pro-feminist Men's group and march too.

[scurryfunge]

Tell him that men are already taken care of in the judicial system and women need to represented as their rights are traditionally ignored.

[HerBeatitude]

Ask him if he thinks any other group which are systematically discriminated against, like Muslims, Black people, Irish people, travellers etc., should always include every other unmarginalised group in the protests they hold to protest against what happen to them.

And then tell him that sometimes, women have the right to stand up for themselves without referring to any other group. If he wants to set up a reclaim the night march for men, he is free to do so and if he wants to exclude women from that, or invite them, it's up to him.

HTH

[booyhoo]

totally agree with sethstarkaddersmum.

why teh hell shoudl women also be organising support groups for men that don't have the gumtion to do it for themselves. if they want the support then get it themselves. women have had to.

[HerBeatitude]

And also I agree with Seth, he needs to understand that his assumption that he is entitled to tell women how to run their campaign to be treated as full human beings, as valuable as men, is the result of his male privilege and is very unattractive.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

and point out that by not doing anything himself, just criticising the way you choose to conduct your campaigns, he is like the man sitting idly in his armchair watching his wife hoovering and shouting 'You've missed a bit!'

[booyhoo]

and agrree with herbeatitude

[HerBeatitude]

Yes, ask him what he is doing to stop rape.

[booyhoo]

apologies for my appauling spelling.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I did say to him that if he felt that strongly about it then he should organise his own march. To which he replied "I'm just saying that maybe there should a joint one, instead of singling out one sex."

[booyhoo]

if men who were raped felt the need for a joint one there is nothing stopping them creating a joint one.

[HerBeatitude]

Well, when men are raped and sexually abused at the rate of 1 in 4, and the perpetrators are equal numbers of men and women, then perhaps it would be appropriate to have a joint march.

But seeing as though that is not the case, it would be utterly inappropriate to invite men to a place where it might be expected that a large proportion of the participants have been raped. Women have the right to feel safe, and their right trumps his assumption that he has the right to elbow into their safe spaces.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

Thing is, you don't have to justify it to him.
If I was talking to someone who was really involved in the issues - someone who was actually working against violence and had well-thought-through reasons why they thought it should be done jointly, even if their view differed from my own, I would feel I owed it to them to discuss it properly.
But if they are just making an idle comment, have never really thought about it or done anything about it themselves, and are not likely to change their view, why waste time or brainpower on them?
In that situation I would be inclined to just say in a slightly bored way, 'No, there shouldn't, singling out one sex is better.'

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I would say "well when you've organised it let me know when it is and I'll try to come along".


The point of the march is that the streets aren't safe for women at night. Some men also get attacked but it is more dangerous for women hence the reason that men walk their female friends home at night rather than the other way round. This is the one night of the year where a loud, visible presence of women reclaims their right to walk through the streets at night unaccompanied by men, without fear of rape or assault, in solidarity with the thousands of women who have been killed or injured because of their sex. It would hardly have the same impact were men to march as well.


Also many women on the march have been raped, and they deserve to have a safe space to protest about this without being jostled alongside men for a change, not matter how well meaning. Maybe point out to him that a woman at Reclaim the Night last year was groped by some fucking arsehole who was just passing by.

[ByThePowerOfGreyskull]

I have mixed feelings on this, on so many levels he is right, and they are part of a much smaller group so it would be much much harder to gain the level of numbers and support for a big march.

I agree however that for these women it is a powerful statement about women being safe.

[HerBeatitude]

Re well-meaning men coming along to the march - if men were invited, it wouldn't jsut be well meaning men coming, would it? It would be abusers too.

And women hav ethe right not to be in the same space as rapists when they are protesting about rape.

[booyhoo]

totally agree herbeatitude.

[Saltatrix]

Your stats regarding DV for males is not 3% it is closer to 30%

[edam]

Men are entirely free to set up organisations campaigning about rape or violence. I haven't noticed any. When your friend makes an effort to create one or join one, then he'll be entitled to an opinion. Until then, it's just the usual sexist attack on anything women do to campaign against injustice.

(Btw, re. DV, significant number of male victims are the victims of male perpetrators).

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Is it really that high Saltatrix?? I must say i'm suprised.

[Saltatrix]

Actually edam the number is not more significant than female > female related DV cases. Certainly the vast majority of DV which occurs is from the opposite sex.

[Saltatrix]

Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.