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Coke/Dr Pepper posts extreme porn reference on teenagers facebook page

(140 Posts)
dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 11:14:51

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earwicga Mon 19-Jul-10 13:11:05

I've forwarded it onto the journalist Laurie Penny who writes for the Guardian and other national publications. I've also forwarded it to The F-Word.

dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 13:12:41

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earwicga Mon 19-Jul-10 13:18:05

I've just read your misrepresentation of Laurie Penny on the other thread dittany. Grow up.

dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 13:23:12

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tabouleh Mon 19-Jul-10 13:44:27

Look - could we have a nice open honest debate about that article her in the Feminist section?

I would really like other people to read it in full so that I can hear other peoples thoughts rather than just seeing what earwicga and dittany think!

Dittany as someone who is fairly new to Feminism I am finding my way here but - I as I understand it some feminists are totally anti-porn, some totally pro-porn and for some it depends on the porn?

Is it not possible to be anti something without wishing to ban it full stop - eg smoking.

I find that article to be an interesting and refreshing take on the porn argument.

Perhaps someone can persuade me what is so objectionable about the article.

BTW - I understand about women being exploited in porn etc and I am learning a lot from:

Stop Porn Culture.

Make Love Not Porn.

Dittany - I really respect a lot of your posts and in particular your advice for women in DV situations etc.

I have found my opinions changing - eg originally I couldn't see anything wrong with the TFL ad with the girl screaming in an unlicensed cab. (I can see why that is wrong now).

However it can be difficult to understand why things are wrong when you are so used to a non-feminist "lens".

I often find your posts are very much "this is how it is" and less attempts to explain your point of view - I also usually feel too intimited to question. shock.

earwicga Mon 19-Jul-10 13:46:11

And Laurie Penny concludes:

'If we really want to reduce violent and sexual crime against women, only a radical re-think of our attitude to pornography, encompassing a long, hard look at our social and sexual mores, will cut it. A warped, limited and misogynist cultural sex-narrative is the problem, but censorship is definitively not the answer.'

I for one would very happy if prostitution and porn disappeared today. But it's NEVER going to happen. Therefore, those who wish to are more than justified in talking about reform.

earwicga Mon 19-Jul-10 13:50:37

tabouleh - those who 'participate' in porn and prostitution are extremely likely to have been victims of child sexual abuse. I don't have the figures to hand, but I seem to remember estimates of 80% of those in commercial porn are victims. That anybody can watch it after knowing that floors me. Obviously I don't mean to say that anybody who has been subjected to sexual abuse no longer has any sexual agency but the figures horrify me.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou Mon 19-Jul-10 13:53:32

x-posting from other thread...

dittany - Laurie Penny seems to be advocating showing films featuring people having non-exploitative sex to teenagers. If this is produced for schools does it even fit the defintion of pornography?

dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 13:54:08

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dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 13:57:14

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smallwhitecat Mon 19-Jul-10 13:58:49

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earwicga Mon 19-Jul-10 13:59:09

Again dittany, Laurie Penny does NOT mention bestiality. It seems to be your own personal obsession.

Agreed TheCoalitionNeedsYou - as part of a programme of healthy sex education I can see how that could play a part.

EleanorHandbasketsWalking100k Mon 19-Jul-10 13:59:10

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dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 14:01:10

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tabouleh Mon 19-Jul-10 14:01:45

Well personally I do not think that "necrophilia, bestiality and rape porn" should be legal.

I just don't understand what would be so bad about the author of that article helping Mrs Rickman out.

The idea of showing adults having sex to children in school horrifies me - but - it would seem better that 16 year olds somehow had some exposure to sex other than horrible porn.

I am sure that the idea will not take hold - but it made me think - and I thought it was a clever argument.

"I've never really felt that it's my position to persuade anybody." - OK fair enough I think I understand you more now - I often find that I'd like people to try and persuade me so that I can see if there is something I don't know/ some argument I don't know.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou Mon 19-Jul-10 14:03:22

dittany - the point that is being made is that if children are going to be exposed to pornography - which is likely given it's easy availability - that they should see 'better' sex as well.

How do we decide at what age people should be considered old enough to see people having sex?

earwicga Mon 19-Jul-10 14:03:27

smallwhitecat - I've never really got the distinction between erotica and porn - what is the difference?

The background of Penny's article is that the majority of teenagers watch porn and from that they derive a warped sense of healthy consensual sex. I read a great article about it which I shall try to find in a bit, about how both young women as well as men find things such as 'pearl necklaces' to be the way to finish intercourse. Another big objection is that in porn there isn't even a nod to safe sex. No condoms etc.

dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 14:04:08

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earwicga Mon 19-Jul-10 14:06:29

'Adults have managed to have sex for millenia without needing to be shown what to do'

Aye, and sex that had nothing to do with pleasure for women. Or even consent.

dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 14:08:25

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EleanorHandbasketsWalking100k Mon 19-Jul-10 14:09:05

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EleanorHandbasketsWalking100k Mon 19-Jul-10 14:09:54

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dittany Mon 19-Jul-10 14:09:56

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TheCoalitionNeedsYou Mon 19-Jul-10 14:10:05

" Adults have managed to have sex for millenia without needing to be shown what to do"

I'm not sure that's true. For much of human history life was a lot more communal. If everyone lives in one room, then children are exposed to a lot more sexuality.

My mother worked as a relationship counsellor - I know that some people she saw really DID need education in the absolute basics.

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